[T]Angela Light: Ace Attorney ☆○○○○ [Case 2 Part 2 BETA]

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Psykoko
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Re: [T]Angela Light: Ace Attorney ☆○○○○ [Case 2 Part 1 UP]

Post by Psykoko »

Also just finished the first case and it's one of the better cases I've played so far.
Spoiler : :
I think it's fairly safe to say that Angela is no where near a mary sue, her flaws stick out quite a bit actually. I found myself swinging between loving and hating her, most notably during Bobby's breakdown when she was verbally cruel to him. I was glad Angela quickly showed sympathy and regret for that though, a great character. I like Evan too, especially after the twist near the end when he's revealed to be an adorable magnificent bastard(poor Bobby). I look forward to Angela getting back at him in some way though. The contradictions were fairly clever, not too hard but I did have fun solving them. If I have to pick which was the most challenging though, probably the one about how the tools and the light's screws were missing.
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Re: [T]Angela Light: Ace Attorney ☆○○○○ [Case 2 Part 1 UP]

Post by Bad Player »

Well since this has already been QA'd before... I'm going to abridge it a bit.
Spoiler : :
40: Two spaces.
94: Accused OF.
137: Delete “would”; such A situation.
201: CLOSE-up.
1845: Logic & Trick should probably start up again here…
1861: When exactly did the victim return
1863: THE security console.
492: This frame doesn’t make sense.
494: I’ve ==>I’d
495: taken ladder ==> the ladder he had taken
498: Two spaces.
Oldbag Testimony 2: We shouldn’t be able to add a piece of evidence to the court record multiple times.
1109: …What piece of metal?
769: This should be rephrased to make the contradiction clearer—emphasize that she patrolled the school every hour, rather than just calling it an every-hour patrol. Something like, “I patrolled the school every hour that night, and never found anybody else!”
934: Reasonable.
1415: I bought a can in the middle (make sure to change it in the CE, too)
1662: all what ==> everything
1666: Missing a space.

242: Some OF my
244: Tried
2226: In AN aggressive
2261: arrive CLOSER to
443: Why would the victim want
2280: left ==> went
2286: THE toilet
2290: hide yourself ==> hid
680-683: Angela should also explicitly think these things in the pre-CE convo. I know you allude to it, but you should make it 100% crystal clear.
924: should HAVE put
1001: Did you mean “that is” instead of “that’s it”?
1063: Missing a period.
Discovering the body testimony: How did he see the body in the backroom if he never actually entered? If he looked inside (without entering), he should say as much.
1171: Double spaces
2307: why ==> a reason
1360: to BE.
Final testimony: Once you press the “I went to check on Mr. Carter” statement further the first time, the press further option should disappear and the end of the press convo should be changed to reflect the amended testimony (like in the “Yes, truth be told” statement).
1573: you saw ==> did you see
1389: A different direction
2239: contradict with ==> contradicts
2240: It’s not exactly clear what you’re asking. I would change it to something like “And what exactly is different between our testimonies?” (or just completely take out this present, I don’t really see why the player needs to present Carter if they present Evan instead of Carter).
2315: warn him about himself ==> give himself away
2317: he’d left there evidence ==> he left evidence there; THAT HE bought
1758: Just change it to “You already testified to seeing it!”
216: Delete “of”
2187: your yet another lie ==> yet another one of your lies
1774: There should be music around here somewhere…
1793: I would accept Oldbag here, too. Angela points out that Oldbag was also in the school and didn’t hear the ladder falling. However, Bobby (or possibly Payne, since I’m not sure if Bobby would know this) says that Oldbag was on the third floor, but according to Evan’s own testimony he never went there. The sound might not have been as loud as Bobby thought, but it should’ve been audible anywhere on the first floor! Angela says that there is a reason Evan may not have heard it, even if he was on the first floor… and then she presents Evan himself.
1888: would end ==> ended
1930: Do you have the falling down sfx?
2008: IN A WAY he had
2045: Missing a period in “Mr. Gavin”.
2052: have ==> had, this ==> the
2055: Double spaces
2064: Change to “which evidence was surprisingly easy to use against him”.
2066: Double spaces
2067: OccasionS, dispose OF
2095: There should be a paaaaaaause
2103: Double jeopardy isn’t really a “law”… (Also fun fact: it actually is possible to appeal an acquittal in Japan. …Not in America, though.)
2149 and on: Either change it to thoughts, or fade to black first. Otherwise it looks like Angela is just talking aloud to thin air.

The contradictions and logic flow much cleaner than the first time I played. There were a few places that I thought needed a bit of tweaking, and also some music changes, which are in the SoC. The biggest issue now, however, is the writing. There's just so many typos, and awkward/stilted dialogue. I pointed out some of it, but there's still plenty left. There were times where I was just too lazy to point out every single mistake, or didn't feel like re-writing entire frames. I can almost always see what you're trying to do or have the character say, it just... doesn't always come out so cleanly. A huge grammar pass-through would be nice.
Psykoko
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Re: [T]Angela Light: Ace Attorney ☆○○○○ [Case 2 Part 1 UP]

Post by Psykoko »

Played up to when we investigate room 101, so is that it so far? I exhausted all the dialogue with Gumshoe and I think I examined everything. I also can't move anywhere else so it seems like it. Anyways, great case so far, hard to guess what the outcome would be. I don't know if you're still updating but I'll look forward to playing Angela more.
Gamer2002
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Re: [T]Angela Light: Ace Attorney ☆○○○○ [Case 2 Part 1 UP]

Post by Gamer2002 »

Are you sure you have examined every area?
Spoiler : what you have to examine :
- doors on the left
- the body marks
- both windows
- phone on the right
After this, you should get from the room
Spoiler : :
Keys, bullet and the phone.
Angela will say when you are done with your investigation, after this talk with Gumshoe about leaving the room.

Currently I am busy with real life things, but I plan to get back to this pretty soon.

@BPlayer
I will address your review later, right now I'm busy and the priority is on the Confessed Part 2 anyway.
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Psykoko
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Re: [T]Angela Light: Ace Attorney ☆○○○○ [Case 2 Part 1 UP]

Post by Psykoko »

Thanks, I guess I missed the bullet hole on the door. Also good luck, I'm loving your game so far.
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ParrotMan01
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Re: [T]Angela Light: Ace Attorney ☆○○○○ [Case 2 Part 1 UP]

Post by ParrotMan01 »

As a fan of both Super Robot Wars and Ace Attorney, I love what you are doing here.

Great first case! I can't wait to see more from you!
Again, just passing through...
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Re: [T]Angela Light: Ace Attorney ☆○○○○ [Case 2 Part 1 UP]

Post by Psykoko »

Yeah, those songs make really energetic Objection and Pursuit themes. Oh and I just noticed, you used "Guardian Angel" and Angela's pursuit theme, pretty cool.
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Re: [T]Angela Light: Ace Attorney ☆○○○○ [Case 2 Part 1 UP]

Post by Gamer2002 »

There was no response to my request for playtesters, but a true developer knows how to handle this.
Spoiler : guide :
Gumshoe's testimony
- Press all statements

Killan's testimony
- Press 2nd statement
- Present Hospital Call Report or Room Phone on the last statement

Present Yin Triadan or Yin Autopsy Report

Select any answer

Spade's 1st testimony
- Present Bullet on the last statement

- Select "Her past occupation"

- Present Killan McTrigger

- Back down

- Select "What she heard"

Spade's 2nd testimony
- Present Room Phone or Hospital Call Report on 2nd stament

- Present Bullet or McTrigger's Revolver

- Present Killan McTrigger

- Present evidence

- Present Tao Triadan

In other news, Angela has a new voice. Credit goes to Dromeo from Reddit.

@ParrotMan01
Glad you liked it. SRW has pretty much a nice library of themes that are suitable for objections/pursuit. Even if not every theme is fit to be objection/pursuit, they always pump you up.

@Psykoko
Angela's objection and pursuit themes were the most obvious choices. Her objection belongs to a quite similar character, personality-wise, and the pursuit one has a fitting name.
And the used remix is simply amazing, IMO better than the officially remixed version for the newest game.
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eisthegreatest
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Re: [T]Angela Light: Ace Attorney ☆○○○○ [Case 2 Part 2 BETA]

Post by eisthegreatest »

I've been playing part one of Confessed Turnabout, but I'm stuck. I can't get into the crime scene, Talk to the defendant, or get Evan to show up. Help would be much appreciated.
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Re: [T]Angela Light: Ace Attorney ☆○○○○ [Case 2 Part 2 BETA]

Post by Gamer2002 »

Can you describe what you did and where are you?
Spoiler : :
After talking with Killan, talk with Kristoph about the prosecutor. This unlocks crime scene (motel's outside) and other locations.

In detention center, use all talk options on Brian. Angela will tell you when you are done with him.

On the crime scene (motel's outside), show Killan's request to Gumshoe. Use all talk options on Gumshoe. Examine the crime scene (IIRC doors, windows on the first floor, both windows on the 2nd floor). Angela will tell you when you are done with this.

After that go back to home.
If this doesn't help, PM your save. Click save on the right, click on the save link with a right mouse button, copy the link and send to me.
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Re: [T]Angela Light: Ace Attorney ☆○○○○ [Case 2 Part 2 BETA]

Post by eisthegreatest »

Thanks for the help! As it turns out, looking at the closed window was literally the only thing I didn't do.
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Re: [T]Angela Light: Ace Attorney ☆○○○○ [Case 2 Part 2 BETA]

Post by Acid Rain »

Decided to procrastinate on my comp entry and play this. I'm a bit of a nitpicker, so I'm not going to give you a SoC. I'm also not going to give a massive review like Enthalpy did (At least, I hope not.), since I would probably get far too in depth and I'm not here to look through the metaphorical glass and into your soul so I'm going to pass on that as well. What I do have is an in-depth summary of my thoughts on what you have so far. Also, I've skimmed the topic and I see you've actually revamped the first case once already? I didn't play the original version so I won't be making any comparisons here.
Spoiler : :
From an objective standpoint, Ms. Light's courtroom debut in Turnabout Siblings is honestly a pretty solid case, especially since this is your first (?) attempt at making one. You have an OC protagonist with a unique personality. You have custom graphics for both characters and those screenshots that no one actually makes because they're damn hard. You have a game that has very few "dick-move" moments with logic that can be followed, and of course you have the obligatory colourful cast and custom music. My opinions on The Confessed Turnabout (so far) are mostly the same.

After playing through TSiblings in its entirety, my personal opinion on this case is "It's okay". I obviously don't have as much of a problem with it that Enthalpy did (and I don't know how much of an issue he's got now, after the re-release), but I am definitely not going to shower this work in praise as seems to be the common reaction. As you'll see, I like the second installment much better.
I'm going to do this in two sections. In this first one, I'm going to look at both cases as games, as well the plot and general construction of the works (since tCT isn't finished, I'm going to talk mostly about TS), and in the second, I'm going to look at the cases as stories, including writing and characterization.

TSiblings is obviously not that long, being two parts and one trial segment. Clearly this was meant to introduce the main characters to the reader and act as an obligatory tutorial type case since it is the first in a series. As such, the crime was fairly simple, as was figuring out who the murderer was. In terms of gameplay, it wasn't too difficult, but as always there are some tricky spots. There were two spots when I needed the walkthrough. I totally missed Oldbag's missing patrol, which was my bad. Then there was that ladder contradiction. I still don't know what the hell Angela's argument was there. Something like, the ladder wasn't leaning against the fall because it was a stepladder which has supports? I have no idea. Aside from that, there was no points in particular that were super rough on the player, which is commendable for a first case. I also had no problems with what there is of The Confessed Turnabout.
Basically, I have two major critiques about Turnabout Siblings' plot and coherence. Firstly, it's just not that interesting. Subjectively. There's never any moments that really impact the player, or if there were, I have already forgotten them. Throughout the case, Angela just sorta...stomps Payne, makes arguments that get accepted and generally gets her way. At the last testimony, I recognize that you tried to up the ante with Dark messing with Angela, but the whole affair felt forced to me. The case progresses in a predictable manner, with the first witness lying for some reason, the locked room not really being locked, the presence of a third person becoming known - it's all pretty straightforward.
The other point I'd like to make is that it feels like a fancase. You probably don't know what I mean by that, so let me give you a few examples. The murder took place in a highschool with an extensive security system and two guards. A literature teacher died after falling onto a ladder while repairing an AC unit when he grabbed a cord from a suspended light fixture which broke and fell on him, electrocuting him to death when the killer flipped the light switch. Both of these things are kinda fantastical and also just kinda...happen. You can tell that certain plot points were devised before the story began to take shape, and which ones were used to fill the gaps between the already made parts...If that makes sense. And don't get me wrong, that's how stories are made - I just felt there were times where the plot was being forced a certain way to have the murder set-up work, even if it doesn't make a lot of sense in context (see above examples). To be fair, this is a really easy thing to get sucked into, and I've seen it in more acclaimed cases too, like Turnabout Bloodlines and whatever was up with the retractable pillar things that held up the court gallery or something...? Maybe that's wrong; it's been a while. For what it's worth, tCT has not had any moments where I felt this was the case. In fact, I think it's a very compelling homicide (Don't read into that.) that makes contextual sense and is interesting to the player. Also more interesting is the tension in the courtroom, which as I said, basically didn't exist in TSiblings. Clearly, your case-making mechanics have improved. Kudos.

And that brings me to the second section. I will not mince words here: the grammar and syntax are bad. The only person I've seen actually comment on the quality of the writing is Bad Player, which I think is astonishing because that is what is holding Angela Light back more than anything else. I'm a dick for saying this, but the biggest twist in the series was when I finished TSiblings and saw that there were, like, four proofreaders. (Not that I'm calling anyone out here - I don't know what they were proofreading for.) Now I think English isn't your first language, based on the consistency of the grammatical errors, everyone saying "lessons" and "toilet", and Room 101 being on the 2nd floor (which I think is a European thing). (If English is your first language, then I am a huge ass and I apologize.) Now please recall that the second thing I said I this post is that I nitpick, but the dialogue in Angela Light is horribly distracting, and I refuse to believe that no one minds except for BP and myself. I feel like 4/5 frames have something off about them in terms of typos, grammar, or syntax. Let me be clear - what the characters are saying does get through to the reader. There are a few times when I was like: "What the hell did they just say?", but for the most part the information is conveyed adequately. But the dialogue itself comes off as being super awkward. I can honestly say that there is a lot of improvement in Part 1 of tCT, but then it falls off again in Part 2. (Although, I'm not sure how much of that is due to it not being proofread.)
Now I could talk about this all day, but I'll get to the point. The awkward dialogue and poor technical skills don't hamper the reader all too much in the way of following plotlines or character motivations, but they do make it seriously difficult to get invested in either. That's a really big problem, obviously since it's the foundation of the reader's enjoyment, and also because when I'm clicking through conversations that I just don't care about, I'll often miss an important reveal or question which I'm then prompted to answer. Maybe that's just me.

So to summarize, Turnabout Siblings was bland overall, was executed surprising well, but suffered from really bad dialogue. The Confessed Turnabout has a legit cool premise, has so far been executed well, and has slightly better writing. Clearly, you're improving, and you didn't need my feedback here to do so. In that regard, I have high hopes for the future of this series. But I feel like I need to recommend that you take steps to improve your writing skills. As always, the best advice you can get for stuff like this is to just read more. Just pick up a book and read it. Don't even analyze anything about it - just read. You more you familiarize yourself with the way conversations flow in a narrative and what does and doesn't make sense in sentence structure, the more you will see it come through in your own writing. For a more immediate solution, maybe grab someone here that knows what their doing and get them to be your editor or coach or something. Maybe ask your proofreaders to be more thorough (if you get any next time). Basically, Angela Light is pretty good at being a game, but if you want this series to really stand out, focus on improving your writing and make the novel aspect stand out. It will do wonders.
Okay. Now that that's over with, let me quickly brush over some specific stuff.
Spoiler : 4 REEL SPOILAZZZZ :
-You write Kristoph very well. The part where he gets flustered over Angela taking McTrigger's case is a little OOC, but other than that, he's been great.
-Speaking of Killian McTrigger, I appreciate how ridiculous that name is.
-The scene in the detention center when Angela takes Killian's case is by far the best scene you've done. I was a little disappointed it was so short, though.
-Tao Triadan is a straight goddamn baller and I can't wait for him to become a bigger part of the story.
-I think you missed an opportunity with Angela's relationship to Evan. I'm not even that upset that the twist at the end made everything I had just done pointless, I'm upset because now their conversations boil down to:
"I'm angry that you're a murderer."
"Yup. Hey can I be your co-council?"
"Okay, I guess."
I think it would have been cooler if he hadn't just told his sister he was the true killer all along, and just let Angela continue to doubt him and her work. Just my two cents.
-I'm a little upset that you did that thing with the victim's face over the autopsy report since I've done the same thing for my comp entry so now I guess I'm just ripping you off. Sorry.
-I really respect the scene graphics that you've made. They look really good and they add to the experience. I also respect them because no one else wants to make that crap since they're so tedious.
-"Circumcise increases the guilt." - Klavier Gavin, 20XX
Seriously that is the best line ever. Please don't ever revise this gem.
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Psykoko
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Re: [T]Angela Light: Ace Attorney ☆○○○○ [Case 2 Part 2 BETA]

Post by Psykoko »

Sorry, I was the proofreader of the trial of Confessed Turnabout so it's probably my fault. I did do my best to look through the script for grammar errors. There were some parts I wasn't sure of but maybe I should be the one to improve on this area. There were certain instances that I thought was ambiguous, the grammar sounded as if it's off but I thought was technically passable. Can you send me criticisms when it comes to proofreading for grammar mistakes I should have fixed? I'm really sorry about this.
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Acid Rain
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Re: [T]Angela Light: Ace Attorney ☆○○○○ [Case 2 Part 2 BETA]

Post by Acid Rain »

Psykoko wrote:Sorry, I was the proofreader of the trial of Confessed Turnabout so it's probably my fault. I did do my best to look through the script for grammar errors. There were some parts I wasn't sure of but maybe I should be the one to improve on this area. There were certain instances that I thought was ambiguous, the grammar sounded as if it's off but I thought was technically passable. Can you send me criticisms when it comes to proofreading for grammar mistakes I should have fixed? I'm really sorry about this.
Please understand that it is not my intention to blame anyone for anything. I'm not satisfied with the grammar in this case and that is simply the opinion of a single person. A minority, even. Please don't feel that I am saying that you or anyone else on the proofreading team did not perform up to standard because I have never proofread anything and I wouldn't know any better. I was just surprised.
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Gamer2002
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Re: [T]Angela Light: Ace Attorney ☆○○○○ [Case 2 Part 2 BETA]

Post by Gamer2002 »

Thanks for your review.

English isn't my first language, there is a reason why I try to get multiple proofreaders. I myself can't really tell if they are actually doing good job. 1st Part of Confessed had a very invested proofreader, he even went overboard with his work and rewritten fragments of dialogue, but I couldn't contact him for the 2nd part.
The problems with the dialogue may be caused with me using foreign language, may be caused with my low writing experience, or both. I will fix things in Siblings to make it acceptable to be featured.
Spoiler : Siblings stuff :
That case was supposed to seem predictable - you defend your brother/assistant, Payne badly prepares his case, Oldbag hides something important, 3rd person is revealed... But it turns out your brother was evil all along and the accused witness was innocent. Angela's antics were supposed to make things feel different (accusing the witness in the very first CE, provoking Oldbag to be crazy, etc), but the case was supposed to seem straightforward (aside from Bobby, the supposed culprit, never explicitly testifying against your client until the final testimony).

As for fantastical elements... Eh, Siblings was really hard to plan and you are right that I was struggling with making the plot work. In normal AA cases, you generally have two truths - the prosecutor's/culprit's truth that provides reasons for your client being accused, and the real truth you have to reveal. But for the Siblings we had
- prosecutor's truth - Evan Light's is the killer
- Angela's truth - Bobby Dark was the killer
- real truth - Evan Light was the killer all along and he set up Bobby be framed, though his plan went initially wrong
This is why, for example, I couldn't allow the police know anything about any 3rd party on the crime scene. This would prolong their investigation and either they would accuse Bobby instead, or figure out Evan's trick themselves. So, a bugged security system that should register back doors being opened but didn't.
And there are things about this case that only I know. Confessed Turnabout is not nearly as complex as Siblings really is.

As for the stepladder contradiction... Originally Bobby just said that it was a ladder and the contradiction was that it was a stepladder. But Enth said that this wasn't enough since stepladder is a ladder, so Bobby also had to more explicitly state that this wasn't a folding ladder. So he said "a ladder ready to be put against a wall". But it was a stepladder, look into the essence of things :P
Dunno, I don't know how to make it more explicit without him senselessly saying "a straightforward ladder, not the folding one".

Spoiler : 4 REEL SPOILAZZZZ :
-You write Kristoph very well. The part where he gets flustered over Angela taking McTrigger's case is a little OOC, but other than that, he's been great.
I know it was pretty OOC but I happen to be lolrandom like that =P
-Speaking of Killian McTrigger, I appreciate how ridiculous that name is.
-The scene in the detention center when Angela takes Killian's case is by far the best scene you've done. I was a little disappointed it was so short, though.
-Tao Triadan is a straight goddamn baller and I can't wait for him to become a bigger part of the story.
-I think you missed an opportunity with Angela's relationship to Evan. I'm not even that upset that the twist at the end made everything I had just done pointless, I'm upset because now their conversations boil down to:
"I'm angry that you're a murderer."
"Yup. Hey can I be your co-council?"
"Okay, I guess."
I think it would have been cooler if he hadn't just told his sister he was the true killer all along, and just let Angela continue to doubt him and her work. Just my two cents.
Nah. After things she pulled herself Angela earned being slapped with what really happened. This isn't "did I do wrong", this is "oh God I did do hell wrong and I am horrible".
Though I get you point with Evan-Angela's relationship. Still, there is more to come.

-I'm a little upset that you did that thing with the victim's face over the autopsy report since I've done the same thing for my comp entry so now I guess I'm just ripping you off. Sorry.
I think that somebody else did that before. For the sake of a good design I had to distinct icons for Yang and Yin's reports.
-I really respect the scene graphics that you've made. They look really good and they add to the experience. I also respect them because no one else wants to make that crap since they're so tedious.
-"Circumcise increases the guilt." - Klavier Gavin, 20XX
Seriously that is the best line ever. Please don't ever revise this gem.
I'm firing the proofreader ;p
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