[T][CE] The Broken Turnabout ★

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[T][CE] The Broken Turnabout ★ 

Message par Calvinball » Mar Avr 21, 2015 7:30 am

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^^Click the image to play!^^

Well, you've gotta start somewhere and I'd say I've got a pretty fortunate start. This here is my first case and I've done my very best with it. It's relatively short, fairly easy, but it was always meant to be and I think it succeeds at doing what it was supposed to. Please enjoy! Or don't. Whichever you prefer.

Notes
  • This case is the winner of the "Roulette Rules" case competition hosted by Enigma and Zeel1™!
  • This case contains major spoilers for case four of Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney. There are also minor spoilers for Justice for All and Dual Destinies.
  • This case contains a BUNCH of stuff not made by me. Credits are in the spoiler tag below. Be warned, as there may be minor spoilers within!
  • Many, many thanks to my beta-testers. It is thanks to them that this case is what it is today.
Credits (Warning: spoilers below!)
Spoiler : Credits :
Writer: Calvinball
Athena Cykes sprites: Rajin, ApolloGrimoire, and mercurialSK
Altered Judge's brother and Franziska von Karma mini-sprites: Huddini
Creamy "Testimony" gif: Huddini
Apollo Justice and Athena Cykes defense team mini-sprite: Hesseldahl
Athena Cykes profile image: Anyare
DD Phoenix Wright profile: Rajin
Chief Prosecutor Edgeworth sprites: Lind
Beta-testers: Enthalpy, kwando1313, DWaM, and Evolina deLuna
Word wrapping program: Enthalpy

Walkthrough
Spoiler : Walkthrough :
Press all the statements

Present atroquinine data on 3rd statement

Press 2nd statement; ask why this hasn't come up before; amend statement to testimony
Press 5th statement; say there is a problem
Press 6th statement; ask why he's confessing now

Either answer will work (if say there is no reason, skip two steps)
Assuming say the killer's on the stand, either answer works again (if say there is no evidence, skip one step)
Assuming say there is evidence, present ANY evidence

Either answer will work

Present Attorney's Badge
Present Vera Misham
Present Kristoph Gavin
Say forge evidence
Say poisoned stamp and nail polish
Say cover up the forgery

Either answer works

Say prosecution's last statement (though I recommend exploring the other options)

Present news clipping (though I recommend pressing the statement first)
Present Franziska von Karma

Pick any answer

Say OBJECTION!

Present News Clipping (though I recommend that you present the badge, locket, and magatama first)

Update List
Spoiler : List of important changes made since the competition (warning: spoilers within!) :
>Miscellaneous typos amended
>Angry Athena co-counsel sprites have been replaced with the updated versions provided by mercurialSK
>Athena and Apollo defense team sprites by Hesseldahl have been added
>Credits to Hesseldahl have been added
>Alternate non-contradiction present during Phoenix's testimony has been changed from the newspaper clipping (which really has nothing
to do with the testimony) to Vera's profile
>Music added to the defense theory sequence
>Some dialogue altered to fit with how some real life lawyers do point out nervous tells
>Optional Macarena dialogue added (Just for you, Enigma!)
>Testimony title format issue addressed
>Profile order issue addressed
>Miles Edgeworth sprites replaced with Chief Prosecutor Miles Edgeworth sprites by Lind
>Credit for Edgeworth sprites attributed to Lind
>Kristoph Gavin cross-examination revamped
>Greyscale has been added to the flashback
>Present sequence has been revamped to better fit the AA style
>Vera profile present has been implemented for real this time
>Miscellaneous typos addressed
>Bugs in revamped portions of the case have been fixed
>Walkthrough has been altered to fit revamped case
>News clipping text altered (different messenger, same message)
>Word wrapping resolved

Synopsis
Spoiler : If you REALLY want it (come on, you'll enjoy it more if you go in blind!) :
More than a year after the conclusion of the revolutionary Misham trial, the Jurist System "test," the congressional committee assigned to the matter finally returns the verdict: rejected. When this happens, Apollo Justice unexpectedly finds himself embroiled in an impossible trial with the deck stacked against him and the whole court crying for blood. While faced with a brutal prosecutor and underhanded legal tricks, can Apollo Justice still prevail and turn the case around, or will the truth slip through his fingers and be lost forever?
Dernière édition par Calvinball le Sam Juin 10, 2017 12:59 pm, édité 12 fois.
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Re: [T][CE] The Broken Turnabout ● 

Message par kwando1313 » Mar Avr 21, 2015 3:49 pm

Go play this! It's a real great trial.

(Also, you should think about getting this featuuuuuured)




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Re: [T][CE] The Broken Turnabout ● 

Message par clcman » Mar Avr 21, 2015 4:37 pm

Haven't played it yet (I will, I swear!), but I had to point out...
calvinball a écrit :This case contains major spoilers for case five of Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney.

Unless you're talking about Turnabout Substitution (which isn't official, nor canon), I'm pretty sure that there's only four cases in AJ:AA.
What do REAL, NON-BRIBED people have to say about HTB!?
"This really changed the way I thought about Phoenix as a character. ...Wow." - Reecer6
"HTB! contains truths that might be hard to stomach, but had to be unveiled nonetheless." - Blackrune
"This deserves a best plot twist award." - Evo
"It changed my life, and it can change yours too. For the better, I mean." - Calvinball
"I will never look at Phoenix Wright the same way again" - PhoenixRises123
"omg best thing on aao" - AceAttorneyMaster111
DISCOVER THE TRUTH YOU NEVER KNEW YOU DIDN'T KNOW IN HTB! PROLOGUE AND PART 1, AVAILABLE NOW!!


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"For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple and wrong." -H. L. Mencken
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Re: [T][CE] The Broken Turnabout ● 

Message par Calvinball » Mar Avr 21, 2015 4:45 pm

Thank you, clcman! That is... slightly embarrassing! ^~^
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Re: [T][CE] The Broken Turnabout ● 

Message par Spyromed » Mar Avr 21, 2015 7:03 pm

I didn't end up watching the streams the whole way through because they were taking forever and without live comments I'd rather just wait to actually play things.

Spoiler : SoC :
.
* Bring it, compwinner9000.
* 2411 frames, nice. It looks like quality trials are getting shorter after the boom of 10k cases from before.
* I think that at least one of these voicemail voices should be green. There's no syntax for a second "phoning" voice in AA, iirc, so no idea what the other color should be.
* vera sit on your damned chair
* Centered timestaaaaamps.
* That's... a lot of evidence to be dumped all at once, but on the other hand, it's all stuff that was in TSuc, so...
* This profile section is a bit out of order. We have Klavier and Drew, but not Athena or Vera...? And then Kristoph is stuck in between a load of them. They should be added in order of appearence.
* Oh nice, you indented Vera's speech.
* "Dark Age of the Law" *shiver*
* May wanna get the actual whip sound rather than just using "anger."
* I'm not sure these waits are long enough for the court pans? [#] is a bit too long, but whatever this is a little too short. Some sort of medium would fit perfectly.
* I wonder if it's possible to modify Athena's voice clip so that she uses the classic shouting effect underneath her voice rather than the DD one...
* "I've come to a decision" what two frames later wow took your damn time
* "That was quick." Well said.
* The Court Begins music should end once Ema gets on stand, since it's fade introducing a witness (or would be.)
* Speaking of fades, it would add to the authenticity if you could use them.
* Regarding the testimony startup: the format is: -- Name -- , not - - Name - - , and shouldn't immediately proceed to the first testimony frame. See ED's guide for reference.
* "I'm not sure how I feel about that." ...You're not sure how you feel about people dying in the middle of trials.
* CE1... no immediate contradictions.
* "lived with the victim and made coffee for the victim" -> "made coffee for him"
* It's weird seeing Athena's side sprites in the lobby and front sprites in court occasionally, but I suppose there aren't the appropriate poses available.
* That testimony name
* "I feel like Mr. Wright was only trying to do the right thing, but he DID bend rules and pull strings." you don't say
* "and calling and calling and calling" This case has more funny moments than the canon games whilst stick sticking to it's writing style
* oh right, it wasn't instant death. We knew this from before though, so...
* Do it.
* Call Kristoph Gavin.
* Do it.
* Please be kristoph
* ...Horray.
* Athena what do you mean "is that who i think it is" aren't you the one who quoted his entire testimony that one time
* He didn't have his badge in prison. You can find his badgeless sprites over on the ace attorney wiki and host 'em.
* allegro already, huh
* "...futher from anyone, you may begin your cross-examination" proceeds immediately to the hold it! bubble. It should require a click. The hold it bubble proceeding to the following frames is fine.
* "Your Honor, the defense's tactics are legitimate and founded upon scientific principles!" ...Ha.
* Alright, this seems to be the point where we stop refreshing what we know from before and the case really begins.
* "(Hm... I have another question. Should I press further?)" I'm not sure this really needs to be here. It sorta cuts off the pacing of the part before it, and not saying anything about what the question may be is just... Maybe "hmm... I should approach this from a different angle. How should I tackle this" with "the suicide plot" as one of the answers or something, or just "hmm... should I try and tackle the suicide plot" with a yes/do answer would give a little more direction.
* Neat way to get around something that otherwise would have been a memory puzzle requiring knowledge of TSuc. Didn't even remember that she was about to be declared innocent at that point in the cace.
* Hmm... why hobonick...?
* Possible greyscale for flashbacks? Also, the flashback is very short. Usually we see a couple of frames before and after the "key"/"focus" frame of the flashback.
* Final testimony is moderato? *weeps*
* ...oh ok then that was it
* yeah i'm not ce'ing that crap bye bye
* Oh, now there's allegro.
* uhm
* ...
* ..................
* ...Screw it, let's just press it.
* That got us nowhere. Um.
* Judging by the statement, the solution must be: that it is NOT our job to prove Kristoph is the culprit, or... to show evidence that Kristoph IS the culprit.
* I suppose the news clipping could show a possible motive that we otherwise can't bring up, even though we already know that isn't the motive?
* Sure am glad that wasn't the case. Similar to the clipping...
* What the hell is this
* Atroquinine data? ...No.
* The profiles don't contain any relevant data... so I suppose that we're not trying to prove he's the killer, but that it's not our job to oh goddamn it you evil genius
* Vera's profile did not have the intended effect.
* ...So that's what you did. It even says it's not Apollo's job right in the data but I skimmed over it.
* calling all veras
* I thought that was the last testimony...
* Never have two "present something" frames in a row. At least one standard frame should separate them.
* I'm a sucker for dumb joke answers.
* Huh. I don't remember whether he gave her a harmless stamp or a poisoned stamp. Let's go with.... poisoned.
* Buttons shouldn't act as dialogue. After all the buttons have been pressed, Apollo should announce his thoughts to the court with regular dialogue.
* Okay, candenza music is the sign of a true final testimony.
* How the hell do you present "he's the killer" at this statement.
* Maybe present Wright to show his camera that filmed his drug trip meeting with Gavin?
* The news clip seems to have had no relevance thus far, and it's got that angsty quote, sooooooooooooo...
* Um... Phoenix wasnted revenge?
* No? Do you just mean Franziska?
* That was a rather short giving up.
* Victor Kudo better be here
* look at my badge, my badge is amazing.
* Sad music in the place that reminds people of Mr. "Pi-pi-pigeons!"
* "And now for the outtakes!"
* There are some chief prosecutor Edgeworth sprites you could make use of on the Canon Character sprite thread.
* The end.


Spoiler : Thoughts :
.
Good stuff. As I said, the quality trials have gotten shorter recently. TAT was amazing with what it did in a mere 3.5k frames last comp., and you've managed to tell a similarly good story even with ~1k frames trimmed off that amount.
The main strength of the trial is the way it's written. It's not super serious or heavy handed, opting for the more AA oriented approach, which it definitely succeeds at. It's the first time in a while I've felt like the fancase could fit into the AA game, because it's got the exact same tone as the canon cases; jokes to start with, and less and less of them once the case gets more serious. And there were a lot of those jokes, too, and not many of them failed at it. The "and called and called" thing could have failed, but the way there's a frame after the first "and called" of Apollo just continuing as normal before the player realises that Brushel's still going at it makes it funnier.

One thing sort of... vaguely related to the dialogue that bugged me was the pacing for the first three testimonies of the trial. It's sort of conflicting, actually. The first thousand frames or so are essentially recapping what a TSuc player would already know, so the fast pacing makes sense, even if it does feel a little rushed. I was actually a little worried about having to memorise all the 4-4 evidence again, so it's good you didn't actually try to cram it all into this short trial, and that it was all just a bluff. But around the time we get to Kristoph's testimony, it really... felt like things were being skimmed over, I guess? Franziska's emotional moments also seem a little short. Sort of nebulous claims, and I'm sure they're fine in reality, but... I dunno, I think the testimony would've felt a bit more "omg it's kristoph" if it lasted a bit longer, and Franz's character would be better if her key moments weren't so short and put in sort of... weird places.

Speaking of the testimonies, the two final ones were great (Phoenix's stumped me, and I'm sure it will a few people. Or... I hope it will, anyway) and the first two were effective recaps of 4-4. Kristoph's testimony was definitely pivotal, and the contradictions that exist in the testimony were excuted very well. I just wish there was just one opportunity for the player to really influence its outcome by presenting evidence. At the moment, it lacks a moment where the player can think about what they're doing; the contradictions are presented by basically asking "should I press more." If the player wants to figure out any of the contradictions by themselves, they'd need to self-impose the challenge on their own, because the game isn't stopping them from just clicking the go ahead button and watching Apollo have the fun.
Turnabout Tomorrow had a similar testimony to this in its second part, so minor spoilers for that in this paragraph because I'm not sure if you've played it. I'll keep the name of the witness hidden, though. In the testimony, there are no opportunities to directly present evidence. Instead, almost every press convo yields a choice, and not just a "press further" choice. They force the player to ask specific questions. "What did you hear" or "what did you see." What's more, the player is punished for choosing incorrectly. This seems like a pretty good way of making sure that the player is the one driving the action. Just something more specific than "should I press further" may have helped the tesimony be more about thinking.
I do understand the problems with that, though. A lot of testimony 3's puzzles are memory based, and what's more, based on memory of a trial that isn't even the one being played. I think the only one of Kristoph's contradictions that could be made, relatively easily, into a present / detailed question rather than a "press further" was the one where he claims he was protecting Vera, even though he's admitting to it right at that moment.

One more thing... I have to wonder why hobo sprites are being used for real, because... judging by Phoenix's previous profile icon, you know about the DD set of Phoenix sprites available. It also means that Phoenix is acting his hobo self for no reason, since his GS4 sprites don't match well with his GS1235 personality.

Finally, a few... technical things, I guess? Most are c&p'd from the SoC, and some of them aren't really fixable at this stage, but... eh. A lot of them are really pedantic and probably don't matter in the long run anyway.

* For ultimate AA style, at least one of the voices on the voicemail should be green.
* This profile section is a bit out of order. We have Klavier and Drew to begin with, even though we meet Vera and Athena before they're mentions, Kristoph is stuck in between a load of them, as is Franziska, etc.. They should be added in order of appearence.
* Would it be possible to use the real whip crash sound rather than "anger"?
* I'm not sure these waits are long enough for the court pans? [#] is a bit too long, but whatever this is a little too short. Some sort of medium would fit perfectly.
* The Court Begins music should end once Ema gets on stand, since it's fade introducing a witness (or would be.)
* Speaking of fades, would it be possible to use them?
* Regarding the testimony startup: the format is: -- Name -- , not - - Name - - , and shouldn't immediately proceed to the first testimony frame. Instead, it should stay on the testimony name frame until the player clicks.
* "lived with the victim and made coffee for the victim" -> "made coffee for him"
* "...futher from anyone, you may begin your cross-examination" proceeds immediately to the hold it! bubble. It should require a click, since he's not actually being interrupted. The hold it bubble proceeding to the following frames is as it should be , though.
* Possible greyscale for flashbacks? Also, the flashback is very short. Usually we see a couple of frames before (or possibly after, if need be) the "key"/"focus" frame of the flashback.
* Vera's profile hasn't been changed to a "fake contradiction" in Phoenix's testimony as your update log suggests.
* Never have two "present prompt" frames in a row. At least one standard frame should separate them for SHSL AA style.
* Buttons shouldn't act as dialogue. After all the buttons have been pressed, Apollo should announce his thoughts to the court with regular dialogue. This and the previous remark sort of go hand in hand. Just having Apollo say what the button said after the player presses the button would clear up both of the issues.
* There are some chief prosecutor Edgeworth sprites you could make use of on the Canon Character sprite thread.

Regardless, it was a fun, neat little case. Looking forward to whatever you have lined up next.
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Re: [T][CE] The Broken Turnabout ● 

Message par Calvinball » Mar Avr 21, 2015 9:30 pm

Thank you very much for the comments! Responses to selected comments are below in blue.
Spoiler : Responses :
This profile section is a bit out of order. We have Klavier and Drew, but not Athena or Vera...? And then Kristoph is stuck in between a load of them. They should be added in order of appearence.

Yeah... I'll see what I can do about this. It'll require changing some events, but it shouldn't take TOO long. I just don't have time at the moment, but I'll try to get to it.

I'm not sure these waits are long enough for the court pans? [#] is a bit too long, but whatever this is a little too short. Some sort of medium would fit perfectly.

Odd... I was using the exact time listed in one of the tutorials. I'll double check and see what went wrong.

May wanna get the actual whip sound rather than just using "anger."

I'll try to download the right sound effect. If things work out, I'll fix it, since sounds are pretty easy to replace.

The Court Begins music should end once Ema gets on stand, since it's fade introducing a witness (or would be.)

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean? Doesn't the court music still play while a witness is on the stand, right before the testimony? I mean, unless the witness has a leitmotif...

Speaking of fades, it would add to the authenticity if you could use them.

If I can find the time, I'll try. I would like that.

Regarding the testimony startup: the format is: -- Name -- , not - - Name - - , and shouldn't immediately proceed to the first testimony frame. See ED's guide for reference.

Ah, I see. Sorry about that. But how do I fix the proceeding to the next frame problem? If I don't go to the next frame, the testimony gif eventually repeats itself, and if I go to another frame before the first testimony frame, the name will type itself again, since V6 doesn't have the nifty instant type trick that V5 had.

He didn't have his badge in prison. You can find his badgeless sprites over on the ace attorney wiki and host 'em.

I know, but the idea I was going with was that Kristoph put the pin back on just to irritate Apollo in the trial. Also, while I know it's sounds lazy, it would take an extraordinarily long time to fix the frames with Kristoph in them and I don't think that's time I have. In all honesty, the reason I used that is because at the time I was originally making the trial, I didn't have access to any filehosting, which has changed.

"(Hm... I have another question. Should I press further?)" I'm not sure this really needs to be here. It sorta cuts off the pacing of the part before it, and not saying anything about what the question may be is just... Maybe "hmm... I should approach this from a different angle. How should I tackle this" with "the suicide plot" as one of the answers or something, or just "hmm... should I try and tackle the suicide plot" with a yes/do answer would give a little more direction.

Hm... I like this idea. I'll try to get around to including it.

But around the time we get to Kristoph's testimony, it really... felt like things were being skimmed over, I guess? Franziska's emotional moments also seem a little short. Sort of nebulous claims, and I'm sure they're fine in reality, but... I dunno, I think the testimony would've felt a bit more "omg it's kristoph" if it lasted a bit longer, and Franz's character would be better if her key moments weren't so short and put in sort of... weird places.

I'm not sure I totally understand what you mean. Do you have any ideas about what needs to be different about Franziska's moments?

Buttons shouldn't act as dialogue. After all the buttons have been pressed, Apollo should announce his thoughts to the court with regular dialogue.

Alright, got it. I'll fix that once I have more time later today.

There are some chief prosecutor Edgeworth sprites you could make use of on the Canon Character sprite thread.

Since Edgeworth's in far fewer frames than Gavin, I should be able to fix that...

Speaking of the testimonies, the two final ones were great (Phoenix's stumped me, and I'm sure it will a few people. Or... I hope it will, anyway) and the first two were effective recaps of 4-4. Kristoph's testimony was definitely pivotal, and the contradictions in the testimony were excuted very well. I just wish there was just one opportunity for the player to really influence its outcome by presenting evidence. At the moment, it lacks a moment where the player can think about what they're doing; the contradictions are presented by basically asking "should I press more." ... I do understand the problems with that, though. A lot of testimony 3's puzzles are memory based, and what's more, based on memory of a trial that isn't even the one being played. I think the only one of Kristoph's contradictions that could be made, relatively easily, into a present / detailed question rather than a "press further" was the one where he claims he was protecting Vera, even though he's admitting to it right at that moment.

Yeah... that was one of the things that bothered me the most as I made the trial. I tried to figure out how to fit just one good present contradiction into the testimony, but I couldn't figure out how to without adding unnecessary details. I considered having a present for the timing of Vera's poisoning "contradiction" by using the trial transcript and allowing the player to keep it, but that would require the player to get something wrong, which seems a tad unethical. I should be able to make the question a little clearer, and if I can think of something reasonable I'll add a choice to the question in that particular press conversation and maybe add the Turnabout Tomorrow style by including penalties somehow.

If I may ask, what exactly would Apollo present as a present contradiction for the "protection" statement that gets added? I thought of using Kristoph's profile, but that would require updating it in the middle of the trial to include information about him being the key witness, and that seems like a cheap way to create a contradiction. Alternatively, I could include in Vera's profile something like "She's on trial again for some reason..." Would that statement be enough to justify a present contradiction?


One more thing... I have to wonder why hobo sprites are being used for real, because... judging by Phoenix's previous profile icon, you know about the DD set of Phoenix sprites available. It also means that Phoenix is acting his hobo self for no reason, since his GS4 sprites don't match well with his GS1235 personality.

This one is related to originally not having access to proper filehosting. Also, Phoenix's more usual "lawyerly" personality doesn't really fit with his behavior in this trial. What I was going for is that here he recognizes that his usual tactics aren't going to work; he needs to be sneakier, stealthier, so he falls back into the old habits of Hobo-Phoenix. If that makes any sense? It's like how Hope Springs Hotel Phoenix is closer to Hobo-Phoenix despite taking place between the first and second games. It's partly a matter of environment.

Possible greyscale for flashbacks? Also, the flashback is very short. Usually we see a couple of frames before (or possibly after, if need be) the "key"/"focus" frame of the flashback.

I'm afraid I have no idea how to grey-scale gifs. I might make a request in the art request thread.

Vera's profile hasn't been changed to a "fake contradiction" in Phoenix's testimony as your update log suggests.

Really? Whoops. Now fixed.

For ultimate AA style, at least one of the voices on the voicemail should be green.

I hope it's okay to go with not-quite-ultimate AA style? Eheheh... I just don't know how we'd work in both voices that way...

Anything I didn't respond to is something that I simply agreed with. Thank you again for the review! It was very helpful. I'll try to address all of your comments as soon as possible, though I won't be able to get to it for several hours.
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Re: [T][CE] The Broken Turnabout ● 

Message par Spyromed » Mar Avr 21, 2015 11:22 pm

Reresponses.

Spoiler : :
calvinball a écrit :This profile section is a bit out of order. We have Klavier and Drew, but not Athena or Vera...? And then Kristoph is stuck in between a load of them. They should be added in order of appearence.

Yeah... I'll see what I can do about this. It'll require changing some events, but it shouldn't take TOO long. I just don't have time at the moment, but I'll try to get to it.


One solution at this point is to have the current profiles that are out of order hidden, and add some "fake" profiles - that is, that act as profiles but the sprites in them are never used - in the right order.

calvinball a écrit :The Court Begins music should end once Ema gets on stand, since it's fade introducing a witness (or would be.)

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean? Doesn't the court music still play while a witness is on the stand, right before the testimony? I mean, unless the witness has a leitmotif...


...Damnit, I was mistaken here. Disregard that. Essentially, I thought that the Court Begins music faded out along with the screen, only to play again after the fade in. That was how it worked in one case, but I've checked other canon cases, and it's not a universal rule.

calvinball a écrit :Regarding the testimony startup: the format is: -- Name -- , not - - Name - - , and shouldn't immediately proceed to the first testimony frame. See ED's guide for reference.

Ah, I see. Sorry about that. But how do I fix the proceeding to the next frame problem? If I don't go to the next frame, the testimony .gif eventually repeats itself, and if I go to another frame before the first testimony frame, the name will type itself again, since V6 doesn't have the nifty instant type trick that V5 had.


This is actually something I don't think is covered in many tutorials for some reason. If you open up a v5 native trial in v6, you'll notice that colored text actually has the [instant] tag. You can see its usage in this image, a v6 native trial.. The 3250 is the timing of the Witness Testimony / Cross-Exam popup (which is the one from E.D's guide). Once that timer expires, it'll move onto the next frame, which is just the testimony name... typed out instantly. Then you can just let it wait for a click on that frame.
Not only can you handle testimonies like that, but questions with buttons for answers can use it so that fast clicking doesn't totally screw the player over. By having two frames withthe same question on it, with a timer of 1 on the former and the instant tag on the latter frame. I'm surprised nobody's made use of it like that.

calvinball a écrit :But around the time we get to Kristoph's testimony, it really... felt like things were being skimmed over, I guess? Franziska's emotional moments also seem a little short. Sort of nebulous claims, and I'm sure they're fine in reality, but... I dunno, I think the testimony would've felt a bit more "omg it's kristoph" if it lasted a bit longer, and Franz's character would be better if her key moments weren't so short and put in sort of... weird places.

I'm not sure I totally understand what you mean. Do you have any ideas about what needs to be different about Franziska's moments?


As I said, it's really subjective, and honestly, I can't place it. Unless somebody else comments on it it's probably not any sort of pressing issue. It just felt like some of these moments came out of nowhere, lasted briefly, and then everything went back to normal. That's about all I can say, really... Not worth changing these all around, it just stuck out a bit.

calvinball a écrit :Possible greyscale for flashbacks? Also, the flashback is very short. Usually we see a couple of frames before (or possibly after, if need be) the "key"/"focus" frame of the flashback.

I'm afraid I have no idea how to grey-scale gifs. I might make a request in the art request thread.


Lunapic does this pretty efficiently.

calvinball a écrit :Speaking of the testimonies, the two final ones were great (Phoenix's stumped me, and I'm sure it will a few people. Or... I hope it will, anyway) and the first two were effective recaps of 4-4. Kristoph's testimony was definitely pivotal, and the contradictions in the testimony were excuted very well. I just wish there was just one opportunity for the player to really influence its outcome by presenting evidence. At the moment, it lacks a moment where the player can think about what they're doing; the contradictions are presented by basically asking "should I press more." ... I do understand the problems with that, though. A lot of testimony 3's puzzles are memory based, and what's more, based on memory of a trial that isn't even the one being played. I think the only one of Kristoph's contradictions that could be made, relatively easily, into a present / detailed question rather than a "press further" was the one where he claims he was protecting Vera, even though he's admitting to it right at that moment.

Yeah... that was one of the things that bothered me the most as I made the trial. I tried to figure out how to fit just one good present contradiction into the testimony, but I couldn't figure out how to without adding unnecessary details. I considered having a present for the timing of Vera's poisoning "contradiction" by using the trial transcript and allowing the player to keep it, but that would require the player to get something wrong, which seems a tad unethical. I should be able to make the question a little clearer, and if I can think of something reasonable I'll add a choice to the question in that particular press conversation and maybe add the Turnabout Tomorrow style by including penalties somehow.

If I may ask, what exactly would Apollo present as a present contradiction for the "protection" statement that gets added? I thought of using Kristoph's profile, but that would require updating it in the middle of the trial to include information about him being the key witness, and that seems like a cheap way to create a contradiction. Alternatively, I could include in Vera's profile something like "She's on trial again for some reason..." Would that statement be enough to justify a present contradiction?


oh god i brought this upon myself
Alright, time to break out the usual disclaimer. I suck at logic, so please don't... put anything you're not totally sure about into that CE until you get other / better feedback. I'll clarify what I said and make some suggestions for the questions you asked, but... yeah, keep that in mind before you borking break Broken.

The Turnabout Tomorrow-style pressing and the just one present! were separate suggestions. I think that using both in a CE would make it incredilby convoluted, considering that just pressing for the wrong answer gets you a penalty. The TTom testimony in question has a HUGE amount of contradictions in it when it's compared to the previous testimony of the case. That's why I was reminded of it here - the player mostly pressing, and there are multiple contradictions. Just one simple present will probably not only be easier to implement, but less risky in terms of ruining the testimony and the player's sanity should they get the questions wrong. You may want to play the testimony in question just to get a sense of whether or not it'll even work for Broken, and if it's worth re-structuring the testimony by a significant amount and adding a lot of dialogue to achieve it. It may well work, provided the options for the player are fair, but could also just screw up the whole CE.

Okay, as for your actual question, I hadn't really thought about a specific solution to the "I'm protecting Vera" problem. It's just the contradiction that doesn't require memory of 4-4 to work, and therefore the easiest to provide a fair solution for. I don't think the trial transcript thing was the way to go, no, but just adding something into a profile.. could work? Just adding "the key witness to this trial, Ms. von Karma's relying on his testimony" to Kristoph's initial profile might be one way to do it (not adding it to the profile halfway through the trial, and instead wording it well on the first profile you get of him). The second sentence, about von Karma "relying" on him would draw attention to the fact that he's on the prosecution's side, and thus, against Vera.

As I said before, there is likely to be someone with a better solution to this testimony 3 dilemma, should you even want a solution. It's not at all terrible how it is now, just lacks a bit of interactivity. Even if you can't figure out a way to have a "present" for a contradiction, just changing some of the "should I press onwards" to something more specific (like "What should I ask about?" -> Ask about the suicide plot) would make the player feel more in control.

Don't take any of that as more than some-person-on-the internet's two cents, though
Dernière édition par Spyromed le Mar Avr 21, 2015 11:36 pm, édité 2 fois.
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Re: [T][CE] The Broken Turnabout ● 

Message par Gamer2002 » Mar Avr 21, 2015 11:34 pm

It was a nice little trial. What was the roulette's theme of your case?

It was bit wordy, it even seemed to be more wordy than DWaM's Turnabout Tomorrow. You were playing around with official trial, so you had easy task without having to plan the actual crime. But you've came up with clever ideas and covered the abandoned Jurist System plotline. You are also pretty good at handling the drama and emotions.

Congratulations, wish good luck for your future projects.
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Re: [T][CE] The Broken Turnabout ● 

Message par Reecer6 » Mer Avr 22, 2015 2:40 am

Oh, looks like I played it JUST BEFORE it went down for editing.

Okay, you seriously DID deserve to win the comp. It's got that kind of serious, well-thought out storyline that sort of makes you look at Ace Attorney in a different way. Sort of.

Also, you allowed me to make my dreams come true:
Spoiler : my SPOILERY dreams :
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Actually, I probably could've done this in AJ as well, but I didn't think of it then, because I was too busy putting Pearl's profile image in instead.
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I have a tumblr, check it out!

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Desmyrr grabs his LEMON!
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Re: [T][CE] The Broken Turnabout ● 

Message par Calvinball » Mer Avr 22, 2015 3:30 am

@Spyromed: Ah, thank you for the explanations! They were very helpful. I should be able to finish adding in the more important updates within a couple hours.

@Gamer2002: The prompt I received was "Future Shock! Write a case set after the last chronological case!" and The Broken Turnabout is set the December 30th after Turnabout for Tomorrow. I'm glad you enjoyed the case!

@Reecer6: I'm pleased as punch that I got to make your dreams come true! But since when was Pearl in Apollo Justice?
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Re: [T][CE] The Broken Turnabout ● 

Message par Reecer6 » Mer Avr 22, 2015 3:43 am

Well, no, she wasn't, but...
Spoiler : an aj screencap :
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This is basically what I've been doing, with a lot of the games.
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Re: [T][CE] The Broken Turnabout ● 

Message par Calvinball » Mer Avr 22, 2015 6:38 am

We're back! The Broken Turnabout has been finalized and has been released once more and, most likely, for the last time! Please enjoy!


Spoiler : @ Spyromed (SPOILERS within) :
I tried to implement as many of your comments as possible, as some of them were problems that were bothering me as well. I couldn't get a present to work in Kristoph's testimony, as his last statement is worded in such a way that the profile present wouldn't work. You see, Gavin refers to events in the past tense, so there's not exactly a contradiction. The problem is that it isn't very well explained, although it does have a simple explanation. Instead I created a simple puzzle where you have four choices there: ask "Why are you confessing now?", ask "Why are you so loyal?", ask "Why did Vera collude with you?", and the choice to back down. Apollo explains in his thoughts that the judge isn't likely to appreciate any frivolous questions that have already been answered. Since the loyalty question is kind of silly and the collusion one has already been answered with the repeated "we knew each other/we were friends/we shared an intellectual kinship etc.", the only right answer is "Why are you confessing now?" since it hasn't been addressed yet.

I tried to fix the whip sound, but I couldn't find the sound effect anywhere. Also, I realized that replacing the sound wouldn't be as simple as I thought, since I can't simply replace the anger SFX, as that would replace it for all the spots where it's supposed to be the anger sound and not the whip sound. So, yeah... sorry about that.

According to one of Meph's tutorials, the court pan takes 3 seconds, and that's what I have... could the tutorial be wrong? If it is, then it ought to be fixed somehow...

I already explained why I picked the Gavin and Phoenix sprites I did, and as for Edgeworth, that was bothering me too, so I replaced those sprites.

I think I've addressed just about everything else one way or another. If I missed something, let me know. Your comments have been extremely helpful!
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Re: [T][CE] The Broken Turnabout ● 

Message par nikekut456 » Mer Avr 22, 2015 8:03 pm

Spoiler : :
The bug after presenting Vera's profile is real. I keep getting the same answer "Hold it"
Oh and I did press "I dont have any" in the previous statement
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Re: [T][CE] The Broken Turnabout ● 

Message par Calvinball » Mer Avr 22, 2015 8:27 pm

Spoiler : @Nikekut456: :
I'm not sure I understand. Are you talking about the bug where presenting Vera's profile during Phoenix's testimony gets you a penalty, or are you talking about a bug that has appeared when presenting Vera's profile when asked to present a witness who would explain the defense's theory?

By the way, the Vera present in Phoenix's testimony has been fixed. Somehow I missed it.

EDIT: The bug has been detected and dealt with. Apologies!


EDIT: After further examination, I think I can safely say that all the major bugs have been worked out of the case. Please let me know if anything else comes up! THIS is what I get for wanting to revamp the case, I guess, eheheheh...
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Re: [T][CE] The Broken Turnabout ● 

Message par lumine » Jeu Avr 23, 2015 2:26 am

This is the best representation of von Karma I've seen in ages. I disagreed with the writing at first but her justification turned out to be beautifully crafted.
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