[T] Isaac Phens: Ace Attorney ●○○○ | [CE] ● | Intermissions: 2

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Nicky Boy
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Re: [T] Isaac Phens: Ace Attorney ●○○○

Post by Nicky Boy »

Spoiler : One thing to note, first... :
Well, thank you for your... thoughts on the case. I'm going to assume you are neutral about it? You didn't say anything other than point out flaws. Even a rating of the case in a scale of 1 to 10 would help me see how un/enjoyable it is.
Spoiler : Responses in orange :
1. Why was the defendant called to the stand? I suppose the prosecutor wants the defendant to slip up and admit something which hurts her case. However, the prosecutor never gave a reason for the summoning to the court.
Obviously, Eugene didn't call her to the stand so she can "confirm the validity of his statements". Remember how Payne mentioned Sugar Daddies to ruin Larry's image of Cindy, which he shows just after. Eugene here shows that Monica can have a short temper, considering that just mentioning Montana being planned to arive was enough to irritate her.

Are we to assume that the judge is corrupt? Alright, then...
I honestly don't see your point here. The defendant is arguably a person connected to the case. Therefore, they can take the stand.

But why didn't the defense raise an objection? I can understand Mr. Phens not raising an objection, since he is a novice defense attorney, but are you seriously telling me that Turner Ment, a "really good attorney", wouldn't raise an objection?
I'll admit I was debating whether Isaac would speak his mind or just keep his thoughts to himself. Might have him raise an objection.

though this exact thing did happen in The First Turnabout... but at least in The First Turnabout, the player was given the choice to object.
See above

2. "She didn't solidify Miss Gontey's guilt" yes, she did. Her witness testimony strengthens the case against the defendant.
I believe my choices of words didn't help, then. Think back on the options: "Made Monica seem more guilty" and "Tried to keep herself innocent". She established a level of guilt for Monica at the first testimony. After that, she tried to show that despite her being involved, she is innocent in the end.

3. Why is the prosecutor and the judge asking Phens for evidence? Why would he need evidence for "how can we trust her previous testimonies now?"? That can't be "backed up" with evidence.
Maybe I can rephrase that scene. Have Eugene point out how Isaac was supposed to show such things in his CE's before Isaac inquires the testimonies.

4. What is the inconsistency between Monica's Story and Montana's first testimony? I don't see it.
Did Isaac say there's an inconsistency? The failure dialogue has that, but that's just that; a wrong deduction. He said that there's a problem; and it's a problem for the reason stated right after. It doesn't contradict anything.

5. The witness having the "opportunity" and motive to murder is enough to make the witness confess? That's absurd. The witness's confession is completely unwarranted. No criminal in ace attorney has ever confessed without there being evidence supporting the claim that they are the murderer. All Phens had against her was "opportunity" and motive. Sure, it's fine if that's enough for the defendant to be declared not guilty (though in the ace attorney universe, that never happens. The defense also proves who the real murderer is), but for that little to be able to make the murderer confess? That's unreasonable.
I'll admit that she gave in a little too easily. I see this as her realising she's been outsmarted and that there's no need to press further. Might revise it if I come up with something longer.
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Re: [T] Isaac Phens: Ace Attorney ●○○○

Post by 123fendas »

Spoiler : :
Nicky Boy wrote:I'm going to assume you are neutral about it? You didn't say anything other than point out flaws. Even a rating of the case in a scale of 1 to 10 would help me see how un/enjoyable it is.
I don't know... Sorry... maybe I'm a mean person... I'd rate it 4/10... I think..........
Nicky Boy wrote:Did Isaac say there's an inconsistency? The failure dialogue has that, but that's just that; a wrong deduction. He said that there's a problem; and it's a problem for the reason stated right after. It doesn't contradict anything.
So why was Monica's Story presented?
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Re: [T] Isaac Phens: Ace Attorney ●○○○

Post by Nicky Boy »

I see... Thanks for the feedback.
Spoiler : Response :
It's a mixture of Isaac realising that he can once again use Montana's lack of specifics to advance his case and that he found the means to accuse her of the murder. I'm honestly not sure how else to explain it, since Isaac shouted the reason later (Montana knew Monica would be late, so all she had to do was arrive before she did.)

One could argue Montana could have killed Lovin even without Monica being late. It's mostly that she saw this as a sign to actually commit the crime that day than anything.
I'd also like to add this (please don't read this in a bad way): I can't tailor the case to everyone's liking. Unless a major logic error pops up again, I'd like to see a couple more reviews and see what's a priority to change and what isn't. (Besides, I gotta think about the changes, anyway)
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Re: [T] Isaac Phens: Ace Attorney ●○○○

Post by RiksKing »

Hey, I've played this! Some thoughts about it:
Spoiler : :
I do have a bit of mixed feelings about this case, however my overall opinion is quite positive. I'll just drop some of my thoughts here, hopefully not parroting too much other users have said.

First off, your presentation is gorgeous. I'm honestly impressed. The full-featured case selection menu (with a full colour image after completing the case), the old school press/present buttons, the text box you somehow got on the top side of the screen, all great stuff. Might need to turn to you if I have some technical issues with the editor!

Don't really have an opinion on the characters yet. I do like Eugene as a prosecutor, would be interesting if he returned later on. I do like Turner as well, he actually sounds like a mentor, but I like how you made him different to other mentors we've seen. After Turner, that's kind of it as far as main characters go. Don't really have a feel for Astin yet, or Melanthios, or Isaac himself. I hope they'll get developed further, but it's a shame Isaac doesn't really take the foreground as much. The only thing I got was him being in a relationship and him being annoyed reasonably fast :P .

That said, him being in a relationship with Astin is interesting. Writing in videogames can sometimes be guilty of having a homosexual character and then that being his only (or defining) character trait. You avoided that here, which I like.

The actual trial feels a tiny bit underdeveloped. As in, like you had way more ideas but couldn't fit them in the case somehow. Plot threads are brought up, which are later on not resolved, most notably being the fact that Lovin owed Monica money. I figured it would play a larger role, aside of the fact that it gives Monica a motive, but it's only mentioned once. There's also the fact that there are 5 pieces of evidence inside your inventory (6 including the badge) and 3 cross-examinations, one of which you solve with Isaac's power, and one of which automatically solves itself (although you do have to present Monica's testimony after that). It does make for some red herrings, though.

I must say that I got confused by the names Monica and Montana on more than one occassion. :lol:

The final showdown is the part about the case I unfortunately didn't like as much. At the point of confession, my first thought was: 'That was fast'. And I don't think the case really warrants such a quick confession as well. At this point in time, it's mostly Monica's word against Montana's word, even though the latter is less credible. But just as they don't have anything concrete on us, we don't have anything concrete on her. Instead, Isaac says she had an opportunity to murder her, and she fumbles (While it does help Monica in her defense, it doesn't really incriminate Montana as the real murderer). I honestly thought somebody was going to object just before the 'Not Guilty' screen because it was so abrupt, but it didn't happen. I can say I was surprised when I saw the verdict.

The ending was great, though! The figurine was a nice touch, and as others have said, excited where you'll take the brother prosecutor thing. Also, I'm curious to see where you'll take the Greek theme. The name Melanthios has to have something to do with that, right? (And I think I saw the 'Greek Turnabout' in your signature ready to be developed...)

This was a pretty good case, especially considering it's (I think) your first. It's a whole lot better than mine, that's for sure! Great to see what you can do with the editor. Apologies if my thoughts leaned a bit more towards the negative. If I were you, I'd try and see if it's possible to extend the trial somewhat, since the breakdown feels unwarranted, and it might give you opportunities to further flesh out Isaac, who at the moment doesn't really have screen presence.
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Re: [T] Isaac Phens: Ace Attorney ●○○○

Post by Nicky Boy »

Yay more people playing the case! Responses in orange (cause, you know, Isaac... hehe)
RiksKing wrote:Hey, I've played this! Some thoughts about it:
Spoiler : :
First off, your presentation is gorgeous. I'm honestly impressed. The full-featured case selection menu (with a full colour image after completing the case), the old school press/present buttons, the text box you somehow got on the top side of the screen, all great stuff. Might need to turn to you if I have some technical issues with the editor!
Tee-hee. Thanks. I figured that, since my writing is a bit lacking, I could at least work on the art. The text box being on top isn't too hard, I can give you specifics if you want. With the new update, I'm gonna make the characters fade in and out properly now, too!

Don't really have an opinion on the characters yet. I do like Eugene as a prosecutor, would be interesting if he returned later on. I do like Turner as well, he actually sounds like a mentor, but I like how you made him different to other mentors we've seen. After Turner, that's kind of it as far as main characters go. Don't really have a feel for Astin yet, or Melanthios, or Isaac himself. I hope they'll get developed further, but it's a shame Isaac doesn't really take the foreground as much. The only thing I got was him being in a relationship and him being annoyed reasonably fast :P .
It's true that people don't get much characterization in this case. However, in the planned intermissions I have between cases, you will get some slice of life for numerous characters, even some that won't really appear in the main story.

That said, him being in a relationship with Astin is interesting. Writing in videogames can sometimes be guilty of having a homosexual character and then that being his only (or defining) character trait. You avoided that here, which I like.
Well, I mean, there's no real reason to make the sexualities stand out.

The actual trial feels a tiny bit underdeveloped. As in, like you had way more ideas but couldn't fit them in the case somehow. Plot threads are brought up, which are later on not resolved, most notably being the fact that Lovin owed Monica money. I figured it would play a larger role, aside of the fact that it gives Monica a motive, but it's only mentioned once. There's also the fact that there are 5 pieces of evidence inside your inventory (6 including the badge) and 3 cross-examinations, one of which you solve with Isaac's power, and one of which automatically solves itself (although you do have to present Monica's testimony after that). It does make for some red herrings, though.
You may be right. I'll admit that this case needs to be reworked (again) ASAP, however, I don't always have the time to work on it on longer sessions.

I must say that I got confused by the names Monica and Montana on more than one occassion. :lol:
Maybe I did this on purpose? Who knows :P

The final showdown is the part about the case I unfortunately didn't like as much. At the point of confession, my first thought was: 'That was fast'. And I don't think the case really warrants such a quick confession as well. At this point in time, it's mostly Monica's word against Montana's word, even though the latter is less credible. But just as they don't have anything concrete on us, we don't have anything concrete on her. Instead, Isaac says she had an opportunity to murder her, and she fumbles (While it does help Monica in her defense, it doesn't really incriminate Montana as the real murderer). I honestly thought somebody was going to object just before the 'Not Guilty' screen because it was so abrupt, but it didn't happen. I can say I was surprised when I saw the verdict.
As I've said, I don't like the current confession as much, either. Should I have released the case later with a better ending? Probably. But it's still nice to get feedback from others. Feel free to blackmail me if I seem like I'm not doing anything about this

The ending was great, though! The figurine was a nice touch, and as others have said, excited where you'll take the brother prosecutor thing. Also, I'm curious to see where you'll take the Greek theme. The name Melanthios has to have something to do with that, right? (And I think I saw the 'Greek Turnabout' in your signature ready to be developed...)
Hehe, thanks. And, yes, the Greek Turnabout will have a Greek theme (duh LOL). Wonder what will happen in that case...

This was a pretty good case, especially considering it's (I think) your first. It's a whole lot better than mine, that's for sure! Great to see what you can do with the editor. Apologies if my thoughts leaned a bit more towards the negative. If I were you, I'd try and see if it's possible to extend the trial somewhat, since the breakdown feels unwarranted, and it might give you opportunities to further flesh out Isaac, who at the moment doesn't really have screen presence.
Well, technically, it's not my first case, but I'd rather forget about my first attempts LOL. I agree with your negative thoughts, don't worry; it also serves as a reality check and gives me some motivation, since you presented them quite nicely. As for fleshing people out, see my comment on intermissions. Though I'll keep it in mind for future cases.
As I also point out somewhere in this, I'm going to update the case with proper character fades. Changing the trial end will have to wait a bit, I'm afraid!
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Re: [T] Isaac Phens: Ace Attorney ●○○○

Post by DetectiveWhite »

I really enjoyed the case, seems kinda fast to be honest, but like is the first case I don't think is a bad thing and has so many other subjects that make this case being good.
Spoiler : My Thoughts :
Isaac and his boyfriend are two beans who need to be protected, seriously and the relation between the characters seems so... how say? So living, so natural, I love it and the contradictions are good too, I got confused in the one about the knife, but that's more because of my english, what is not the better, but I really liked and I want to see what the future reserve for Isaac.
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Re: [T] Isaac Phens: Ace Attorney ●○○○

Post by Nicky Boy »

I'm glad you liked the case!

It really helps that I'm getting feedback on the case; as soon as I'm able to, I'll work on it some more!
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[T] Isaac Phens: Ace Attorney ●○○○ | Extra: 1

Post by Nicky Boy »

Hey everyone!

As you may have noticed in my signature, things have been too busy this year for me to improve the first case and generally work in this project as much as I want to.

However... I have a little bonus for you; something I mentioned in one of my replies. And I quote:
[...]In the planned intermissions I have between cases, you will get some slice of life for numerous characters, even some that won't really appear in the main story.
That's right, intermissions will start to appear! The first one was made a long time ago, but I never got around to releasing it. Have the link for this one here, and all future intermissions will be in the new Extras section under The Fateful Turnabout in the OP. You don't really need to play any cases for these, but if you have to, I'll make sure to put it after the required case.

In short, as I mention above, intermissions will provide you some more info on what happens to characters in their everyday lives. They won't be too long (the first one is barely 2 minutes if you aren't a slow reader), nor will their structure and language be as strict as a case ought to. Feel free to propose an idea if you want for these! Some will be silly, others will be serious, others will be recreations of memes... the possibilities are endless!

Progress on the main story should happen after June ends. Stay tuned!
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Re: [T] Isaac Phens: Ace Attorney ●○○○ | Extra: 1

Post by Nicky Boy »

Hey all!

I'm finally done with my finals, as you may have seen in my art thread. Unfortunately my brain is toasted so I won't be looking into improving the first case for a little while. I just don't want to do something that requires a lot of thinking at the moment.

I did play it all one more time and... I noticed all music was gone! All tracks have now been moved to github and should be working again.

During this process, I turned some gifs into svgs or apngs. I have a thing for making visuals look good and it wasn't really difficult.

That said, I added one more thing to improve the visual presentation If only my writing was this good...:
Spoiler : What is it, what is it?! :
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Now in cross-examinations, you will see the VS Screen on the bottom! Clicking on it will skip it, only because "Ask the player to point to an area" requires a target failure frame. But oh well. The top screen will proceed at normal and the bottom screen will revert to how it normally is after the timed frame is over.
I hope I can have the right mindset too, cause I'm really excited to make progress!
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Re: [T] Isaac Phens: Ace Attorney ●○○○ (Updated!) | Extra: 1

Post by Nicky Boy »

Heyo/

Legal double post to let you know I updated the first case! The end isn't as anti-climatic now and I've also reworded earlier parts of the trial to fit this change.

I hope you enjoy the case better now!
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Re: [T] Isaac Phens: Ace Attorney ●○○○ (Updated!) | Extra: 1

Post by privateprosecutor »

I really liked this case a lot. Assuming you were the one who made isaac's sprite, i must commend you for being brave enough to say "what if the defense attorney was right handed and had to point backwards"

Since I mostly have good things to say about the case (i thought the cross examination allegro music was weird, but thats a nitpick), my one substantial complaint is that
Spoiler : :
I initially presented the knife on the second testimony because of the point that there was no DNA of Montana on the knife, and was confused when that was a contradiction later on cause I assumed it wouldn't be pointed out
otherwise though, it was an enjoyable, albeit short case, and I look forward to what the rest of these series offers
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Re: [T] Isaac Phens: Ace Attorney ●○○○ (Updated!) | Extra: 1

Post by Nicky Boy »

Yay someone played the updated case! Thanks a ton for writing feedback! I'd appreciate if you let me know what you liked, too. And yes, I am the one who made Isaac's sprites!

Regarding what you pointed out...
Spoiler : :
To be honest, it was a weird situation. No-one had pointed out this issue before, and it only dawned to me when I was about to do one final playtest of the updated case. Is the excuse that Isaac is still a novice enough? (Let's not forget what Phoenix decided to point out, of all things, in JFA-1, though I don't like to justify my own mistakes this way). We may have solved more complex cases in other games but it's still Isaac's first formal trial and I was aiming for a simple first case.
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Re: [T] Isaac Phens: Ace Attorney ●○○○ | [CE] ● | Intermissions: 2

Post by Nicky Boy »

Hey all!

I'm back with two updates. *gasp* yes, two!

The first one is, I have released the competition entry for the "Looking Back" competition: Surprise! It's a Christmas Turnabout! It's an independent case, meaning that you jump right into it without having to play any other case! I hope you enjoy it, whether you followed/participated in the competition or not!

The second one is... a new intermission! I had finished this before the competition, actually, but I wanted to spread intermission releases out. So, now that I'm not actually working on any other case for the time being, here it is!

Both of those can be found in the OP, under "Extras". I hope you enjoy both!
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Re: [T] Isaac Phens: Ace Attorney ●○○○ | [CE] ● | Intermissions: 2

Post by DJJ6800 »

Here are some thoughts on the case as I play it.
Spoiler : :
Hm. "No Place Like AAO for the Holidays," "They Shall Not Kill," what's the third theme, I wonder?

Heh. Isaac's Christmas spirit is definitely one of the biggest.

Wait, hitting someone over the head with a guitar? It's clearly Pees'lubn Ahndistan'dhin from Spirit of Justice!

"Theo Therside?" AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Of course he gets in trouble for spreading the Christmas joy.

Text in brackets during the first press convo.

Glad to see you have the patience that I didn't when it came to putting in fades during press convos.

I wonder what the grandfather's favorite sitcom is, anyway...

(Is there an anti-defense club or something?) Yes, it's called everyone except the defense attorneys in the Phoenix Wright universe.

"A single word is not enough" Excuse me, that's TWO words, Isaac.

Man, all these song references...I'm both laughing and groaning.

An axe shaped electric guitar? ...interesting design.

"Sue Panking?" I probably don't wanna be on the receiving end of her punishments.

So the grandfather is her father in law? I could definitely watch a sitcom about this family.

Seems this is where I'll have to use the special ability.

Nicely animated graphics on the select screen.

Hm...could someone else have screamed?

Pretty old TV? Girl, get a flat screen.

Okay, I'm betting the grandfather watches Happy Days.

Assumptions from the witness, I see. Interesting...

That prosecutor is certainly flamboyant.

More song references...

Ooh. She's saying he was attacked with fisticuffs?

Hm. So does this mean that the grandfather is the culprit? ...I'm not so sure...inb4 fifth person or something.

"I Dream of Janice..." Eh, I was close.

"Those modern shows have no charm at all!" Hey now! I'll have you know that I'm currently binging "Arrow" and it is freaking awesome!

Heh. Seems Isaac just got the joke too.

THE ASSAULT NEVER HAPPEN

Don't you know, Turner? When in doubt, present the seemingly useless things.

*takes a closer look at the photo* Wait...did I just see...

Huh. Not what I thought that was...

All of them were drunk...tsk tsk.

Uh oh. Mom is angry...

Thought route time! Nice!

Man, making me have to look up Greek in the middle of an AAO case. *grumbles in only speaks English because reasons*

Heh. Using Christmas carol references as basis for testimony? I like it.

"Committing murder?" Hmmm...

Wait, what? So...we still don't know who did it? Um...

A mistrial...interesting ending...
Final thoughts:
Spoiler : :
Definitely a well timed case, considering the theme. I was definitely getting into the Christmas spirit playing this. The mystery itself was well done though I could see the ending turning some people off when it comes to this case due to how anticlimactic it kind of is. Personally, though, it didn't bother me too much. Either way, good job, dude! Hope you do well in the comp!
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Re: [T] Isaac Phens: Ace Attorney ●○○○ | [CE] ● | Intermissions: 2

Post by Nicky Boy »

Responses in orange (removed any comment I didn't react to)
DJJ6800 wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:30 am Here are some thoughts on the case as I play it.
Spoiler : :
Hm. "No Place Like AAO for the Holidays," "They Shall Not Kill," what's the third theme, I wonder?
Not like I told you its Short and Sweet or anything

Heh. Isaac's Christmas spirit is definitely one of the biggest.
It's the most wonderful season of all!

"Theo Therside?" AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Would it really be an AA game otherwise?

Text in brackets during the first press convo.
Fixed it before your SoC :P

Glad to see you have the patience that I didn't when it came to putting in fades during press convos.
I put more effort in presentation than it's probably worth

(Is there an anti-defense club or something?) Yes, it's called everyone except the defense attorneys in the Phoenix Wright universe.
RIP DA's

"A single word is not enough" Excuse me, that's TWO words, Isaac.
Hush. It wasn't pointed out by SL or ash, so I'll have to edit it after it's judged

Man, all these song references...I'm both laughing and groaning.
I advise you don't play any main case after The Starting Turnabout when they are released

"Sue Panking?" I probably don't wanna be on the receiving end of her punishments.
What's that, sweetie, you wanted a guitar~?

So the grandfather is her father in law? I could definitely watch a sitcom about this family.
Life with the Agita's

Nicely animated graphics on the select screen.
Thanks. As I said effort in presentation

Pretty old TV? Girl, get a flat screen.
Not enough income by being an Assistant Manager, apparently

Assumptions from the witness, I see. Interesting...
Have all witnesses ever skipped the "Don't Assume!" class or something?

That prosecutor is certainly flamboyant.
LMAO the idea was more dramatic and brooding

More song references...
Puhuhuhuhuhu...

Hm. So does this mean that the grandfather is the culprit? ...I'm not so sure...inb4 fifth person or something.
RIP your idea

"I Dream of Janice..." Eh, I was close.
Actual show is called "I dream of Jeannie", btw

"Those modern shows have no charm at all!" Hey now! I'll have you know that I'm currently binging "Arrow" and it is freaking awesome!
He's just a boomer, ignore his ramblings

Heh. Seems Isaac just got the joke too.
We should add Theo on TV Tropes

THE ASSAULT NEVER HAPPEN
You made me go back and check if it was spelled like that. Thanks...

Don't you know, Turner? When in doubt, present the seemingly useless things.
Just force them to be relevant!

*takes a closer look at the photo* Wait...did I just see...
Huh. Not what I thought that was...
What *did* you see, btw?

All of them were drunk...tsk tsk.
Shame on the Agita's

Uh oh. Mom is angry...
She is about to go... spanking!

Man, making me have to look up Greek in the middle of an AAO case. *grumbles in only speaks English because reasons*
I've amended the intro to include this information if you don't know who Isaac is

Heh. Using Christmas carol references as basis for testimony? I like it.
All the music quotes prepared you mentally for this :P

Wait, what? So...we still don't know who did it? Um...
A mistrial...interesting ending...
Not your typical ending
Final thoughts:
Spoiler : :
Definitely a well timed case, considering the theme. I was definitely getting into the Christmas spirit playing this.
Teehee~ Great to know!

The mystery itself was well done though I could see the ending turning some people off when it comes to this case due to how anticlimactic it kind of is.
I'll admit my weak spot is ending cases. However, I tried my best with Isaac and Theo's last argument to show that no amount of trial would suffice to find a proper end to this.

Personally, though, it didn't bother me too much. Either way, good job, dude! Hope you do well in the comp!
Thank you!!!
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