[T][CE] Turnabout Revolution (phase 3 out!) ○

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deHughes
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Revolution

Post by deHughes »

GUMPEI WAS IN THE COMP ENTRY OH GOD THAT'S WHY HE WANTED SPRITES ANIMATED I AM SO SORRY SO LET'S PLAY IT AND WRITE ESSAYS ABOUT IT TO MAKE UP FOR IT
Spoiler : Running commentary :
- Not deleting the skip intro, shame. Shame on both of your houses.
- Isaac Guard 2012
- Interesting intro. Expert timing on it, but a strange song for a murder case… I liked it, however.
- Also, nice use of your avatar there, Mu.
- Man, I forgot how loud sound effects were in AAO.
- I like the idea of Apollo being the one to inspire them. That's a good way to take his character.
- So, I have to say, from the dialogue so far, this may be the best writing I've seen in a fancase. You done good if this opening is any indication.
- REFERENCES TO OTHER GAMES
- … Mu… Ping… I love you. So much. Books will make me hate no longer.
- I would have left the music out of the Phoenix area the first time around. Would have made the transition less awkward, and silence can be golden.
- Really digging the premise here. Good job, guys.
- Huh, Mall backward bugged out first time around for me. A reload fixed it.
- So he blocked himself in with wood. Because nothing can burn wood.
- I love Peppers character. He's very fun to read.
- I love Salem's character too. Very interesting and enjoyable cast we have here.
- I like him too, Trucy. I like him too.
- Yes, Burns. I will marry you. Your words are the greatest poetry known to man.
- And I like Delia too. Not as much as her theme though. Love that theme.
- Interesting discussion with Delia. I'm excited to see how this theme will play out in the rest of the piece, and how it effects Apollo throughout.
- Annnnnnd gay joke. QUALITY =D
- OH GOD SO MANY REFERENCES HOLY CRAP
- This explains EVERYTHING. The Carr's were super rich, then were robbed. This made Willy go into gambling in hopes of making everything back. Also sets up the political ties of the family.
- … Might steal this a little bit…
- Interesting ending, but it did get a little weird at the end. It "To be continued" then went to the final scene, then one more "to be continued." May have been intentional to mislead players, but the screen kinda skipped around a bit for me, so it was off-putting.
Spoiler : Final Report :
My running commentary seems a bit short to me. I decided to not try and think up witty comments, and instead focus all my miniscule brain power to fully focusing on the case itself. Not going to do theories yet, since I want more backing from Phase 2. I'm unsure of how Phase 2 will play out, as I can see it containing some investigation instead of just cutting off to trial straight away. But that may just be my love for investigations slipping in. Anyways, I do want to make some comments in text wall form because of the lacklustre running commentary.

First off, I absolutely love the pacing of this part. Nothing felt like it dragged too long, and I would have to say that very little felt like it went too short. If anything, I think the ending probably felt the least paced, simply because of the lack of visuals. But alas, not much which could have prevented that. Overall, everything took its time very nicely and kept immersion in the case very high. While references to other works where present, they were not overwhelming, nor immersion breaking. They were nice little easter eggs that add a layer to the enjoyment if you know what they're mentioning. Great execution of them.

The characters, the most important part of a story IMO, were amazing. The canon characters were firmly in-character, aside from a few minor things like the addition of swear words to Apollo's diction. But, you know how I like adding me some language into cases. Apollo and Trucy had a great sense of chemistry that really cement the brother-sister relationship. However, it doesn't hammer it into our faces like other cases. It makes the knowledge of the relationship known, and leaves, letting players see it with their own two eyes instead of having them constantly going "HEY BRO! OH HEY SIS!" Nice use of subtlety and "show, don't tell" with them. Klavier… could have possibly used more German, but I may just be disillusioned by JM. Good job on him, none the less. Ema was very perky, as she should be, though I thought we could see a little more grump. Kristoph, I'm saving a whole note for. Overall, nice work with each character. You managed to get their character down while missing little, and what was missed was minor.

The OCs are, as you can tell from my notes above, something I enjoyed greatly. Each one had a strong personality and gave off the feel of being nicely rounded characters instead of just words on a screen.

Billy Peppers manages to topple my fears of him potentially just being a big Beatles joke. Each aspect of his character adds something more to him, and makes him feel real. He isn't just "Hey, that's a song!" He is a true person in the TRev world. He is a talented musician, as well as a war veteran. He has ties to previous characters, and a strong set of beliefs which he abides by. In fact, I would say that Peppers may be the greatest example of how strong the OCs are in this case, by virtue of being the first we see. As we talk about Pepper's role in history, we see that he has a lasting impact on the world. Seemingly off-hand things are given just enough screentime for us to grasp them and incorporate them into our view of the character. We see that he has strong regards for integrity and respect for his work. He stands by what he believes in, and will never step down from a fight presented to him. He is a knowledgeable and respectable man, who could either serve as our best friend or worst nightmare in this case. Everything about him oozes style, and a strong head resting on his two shoulders. I can outright say that I'm biased towards Peppers, however. His speech about respecting his work and making sure nothing got in the way of it resonates with me quite strongly, and he won me over the first second he mentioned leaving the Gavinners due to creative differences. In a weak character(or a purposely designed super-hipster) that would come off as, well, hipster "fight the man" babble. But with Peppers, that comes out as sheer respect for his work and creative difference from Klavier and the rest of the band. Or I'm just a super hipster and am blind to it. Who knows.

Ed Salem's seemingly split-personality is an interesting character trait, and fits the flimflam man look of his sprites extremely well. His energetic persona, and the music that comes along with it, provide a great conman feel from the character and make him extremely fun to read. The speed of his talking matches the design of the character, as all old school conmen seem to have a habit of running words by you so fast, that you can't even comprehend a word they're saying and just making you say yes to whatever they're selling. This is topped off quite well with the abrupt transitions to the slow paced, rage filled second person that lives in his head. This acts as a strong contrast to the almost lyrical vibe Happy!Salem gives with the destructive bursts of anger. They're too completely different people, who alone would get old, but compliment each other perfectly and ensure that reading the character never gets old. Him stealing 50k from my OCs and get away with it also makes him a perfect conman.

Murray Burns… is quite the enigma. His design screams "mystery" and everything about the character seems to match that. While the eyes are the window the soul, seeing only the window, and not the frame surrounding it makes me quite unsettled. Seeing his eyes, and nothing but his eyes, wrapped up in a long trenchcoat and fedora makes him quite the mystery right off the bat with a strong visual impression. Amazing use of sprites right there. The first words we, indirectly, hear from Burn's are a great indication of the ride we're about to head out on, and Burn's serves as the turning point in the game. Burns is the first point where the case gets weeeeeird, and not just with his codeword deal. His paranoia and fear accompany his knowledge into a great framework that truly sets up Justice in an amazing light. He takes the facts of the case and turns them on their head. While most cases gives a less than satisfactory approach with their initial theory for how the crime ran down, Burn's "confession" is something that I would be satisfied with if I was presented with it at the end of the case. The inclusion of heavy paranoia and conspiracy only adds to that in a way that truly sets up the case to be something great.

Cordelia VeLind, the owner of the best theme in this game. As well as the presenter of, what appears to be, the big themes of the game. Delia is not just a fun character to read, but the presenter of the question of "Do the ends justify the means." A popular theme for murder mysteries with a heavy story focus, I'm sure. She raises questions and makes the player, and Apollo, THINK. Can't say much as the theme hasn't been fully wrapped up, and I'd rather save all my gushing for when I can take a look at the big picture. She's fun though, and is a very good way of presenting the theme of the case.

Finally, Kristoph Gavin. Now, this will largely be theoretical compliments. Kristoph serves as a great moral trigger for Apollo, a great framing device in the mystery of the case, and an expert deception trigger. Much like most cases, TRev starts out as a slice of life and then breaks down into a more intense tale with the revelation of something deeper. But what most cases don't have is Kristoph, a character whom has been built up for an entire game prior to release. And if they do, they lack him playing an actual role. Kristoph only appears three times in the entire part, but each of those three times are solidly the most memorable parts of their respective acts. Beginning, middle, end. Each involves an appearance from Kristoph, and each is done amazingly. Beginning sets up Kristoph as a serious threat and villain to Apollo, a man who he cannot stand and yet, once loved. Middle throws him into Apollo's life once more, only to be greeted with a polite smile and a casual sense of presentation. Ending… well, I don't need to say WHY that's memorable. Kristoph is never physically involved in any part of the case for… I'd say 15 frames. And yet, he's the biggest mark of the case. He is what sticks out, even though everything about him is left in the dark. Is he the criminal? Is he even involved? Why is he doing what he's doing? Nothing is given, and yet there is a serious sense of completeness in just SEEING Kristoph again. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

And that's an essay on the first part of what is sure to be an amazing case. Don't want to go into toooooo much depth, because I need to save something for my final report… which will probably actually be a real essay. So yeah, good job.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Revolution

Post by Blackrune »

Can't give out my stream of consciousness just yet it seems.

I found no game-breaking bugs.

4 walkthrough peeks. Forgive me.
Gumpei
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Revolution

Post by Gumpei »

There are so many comments I need to reply to (especially Truf's essay, which absolutely floored me), but before I do that...

GET READY FOR PHASE 2
... after the public links start working again!

Also, @Burr - ...four... hm... I can guarantee I know what two of them were. And I'm also locking in what I believe are pretty good guesses for the other two.

...just remember that three of those were indirectly your fault. :mrgreen: Look forward to reading your commentary. Also, how long did it take you?
Last edited by Gumpei on Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Revolution (phase 2 is out!)

Post by Ping' »

Same as Gump, I will be replying to all of your posts soon...

In the meantime, I'd like to apologize in advance for proving so many of those great theories wrong =)
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Revolution (phase 2 is out!) ○

Post by DWaM »

Welp, I'm liek, five minutes in phase 2, but I have to say two things:
Spoiler : :
1. YES. Apollo being dead? THAT'S the plot turn I wanted to see!
...But I'm still suspecting him. Something about him buried with his badge and bracelet... Hm... Something about that line feels so... Foreshadowing-ish? Yup. He's still the bad guy. :awesome:

2. Got into the courtroom. Saw the judge. My reaction:

"OH SH**, IT'S THAT JUDGE FROM COUNT OF MONTE CRISTO THE ANIME. ...We're screwed.
Interested to see where this goes! :D
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Revolution (phase 2 is out!) ○

Post by Blackrune »

@Gumpei: I felt bad for some of them afterwards, mainly because I was actually on the right track but failed to show it the proper way. I still feel like I held myself pretty well in there overall though. It may not have been the parts you'd immediately suspect. xP
You'll see in my stream of consciousness.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Revolution (phase 2 is out!) ○

Post by Ping' »

Time for some replies.

DWaM >
Spoiler : :
Mah Final Answer]Alright, working off that Phoenix and Burns are one and the same, I'll claim that it was he who put the gun in the changing room and helped Kristoph escape! As for who Justice is? It's Delia, the Sargeant, Salem and whoever the judge of the case turns out to be.

It's perfect logic, really.

Was about to say "what if the judge is Udgey's twin brother who is exactly like him in every way" but then I realized part 2 had already been released :wink:
eighthbit >
Spoiler : beginning of part 2 :
Apollo was held at gunpoint at the end of this part, it's gonna be awesome what he does to save his life.
Because I love Polly's character, and he's written very well here.

...Oops.

Terribly sorry about this.

kwando1313 >
Spoiler : Real Theory :
I gotta say, there's too much here to be mere coincidences. The door jamming, I can understand, but the whole replica key thing... That just seems... Fishy.

So, let's get out a list of culprits first:
Peppers
Burns
Salem
Dalia
Kristoph

Do any of these people have possible motives? Well, while Burns says he burned the place down... It still makes no sense. Why would the flames jump from his store to the other store... Even though the gasoline is on his side? It makes no sense. Therefore, I claim that while Burns started the fire, the true culprit was at "Dames". After all, Burns was knocked out afterwards...
So who remains? Peppers, Salem, Dalia, and Kristoph. I feel like you're trying to get us super suspicious of Dalia right now...

The fact that you're calling her "Dalia" is interesting. It's almost a form of guilt by (word) association ^^

But it's most likely just a misdirection. (I hope) As well, you make it seem like she has an opportunity to take Burns's gun (MO Part 1).

So we're left with Peppers, Salem, and Kristoph. Of these, who had the best means to commit the crime? Kristoph, yet Dalia, would be too obvious of a criminal. Despite the fact that he has a gun (which could be Burns's stolen gun, who knows?), I don't think that he was the person on the other side. After all, he was being watched that entire time. Apollo's just going paranoid, that's all.
So that leaves us with Salem and Peppers. Salem could be involved with this crime. He has a grudge against the justice system. However, yet again, this culprit seems too obvious. You guys like to red herring people (so who knows? Maybe having an obvious criminal this time would be the red herring?), so I don't think he's the criminal.
So now, we're left with Peppers. He seemingly has no connections to the crime. However, he was a part of the Gavineers in years back. Which means, he knew people in the law enforcement. I don't know, I'm just merely going off hunches, but why on earth was he here so early?

Maybe he had some shopping to do? :D

He was a loyal customer, so he knows the inner workings of this place. He, as well, could know about the hidden grate inside. So, I suspect him to be our culprit in this case.

And... another one for Peppers. Fascinating how he's raised the suspicions of most people who've found the other characters "too suspicious".

Also, a random little note, it seems that Burns is almost at Step 4 of "the process." His precious item has been stolen away, his precious place has been burned down, he was knocked out, and you could say he was "kidnapped" by the justice system. Which only leaves his death.

Indeed, that's one way of looking at it. So you're thinking Burns is either the or a victim? After all, it wouldn't be the first time the defendant ends up being murdered...
Spoiler : Joke Theory. However, it still contains spoilers. :
The entire crime was planned by the evil syndicate of Moe the Clown, Jean Armstrong, Wendy Oldbag, and Frank Sawhit. Tired of being tossed around as jokes, they wanted to reform the justice system. They finally wanted to be seen as the threats they actually were. Wendy Oldbag, with all her skills in security, knew how to steal people's precious objects. In fact, she wanted to steal people's objects away in practice of stealing away Miles Edgeworth's heart. Jean Armstrong would then proceed to burn down their target's locations. As a terrible chef, he knew exactly how to burn and destroy food. Therefore, he translated these ideas from food into arson. The lack of fingerprints on the gas? It's because, since he was confused about his own identity, he left no discernible fingerprints! Frank Sawhit is our 3rd member of justice. He already has a history of breaking into places and knocking people out. He just simply used a modified version of "The Thinker". You may be wondering how he escaped? It's because the original Sawhit they captured was merely a clone of the true Frank Sawhit! However, this real Sawhit knew exactly the deeds that had been committed by the clone Sawhit, and as a result, used "The Thinker" as an homage to the first trial! And of course, the killer is Moe the Clown. Why? Because, only a person who can come up with terrible jokes like he does, has the evil capacity to kill people in such twisted ways.

Given that Top Bun was my idea, should I turn myself in to the police?


As for how the crime went down itself? It's simple. Jean Armstrong hid inside the dressing room. He started cooking, which confused Burns into thinking the fire had started. The noxious smell of his cooking knocked him out as soon as he entered Dames. Armstrong himself was immune to these smells as he had grown used to his own cooking. Then, pretending the clothes in Dames were like vegetables, he proceeded to douse the clothes with oil... Only, this oil was gasoline. Then, he proceeded to light his creation on fire. And then, he escaped into Top Bun, where he worked as a pastry chef.

AND LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THAT IS HOW THIS CRIME TRULY WENT DOWN!

Now I want to make an abridged version honouring that theory.
Enthalpy >
Spoiler : Part One Commentary :
Turnabout Revolution: Phase 1 Commentary

2660 frames... Let's do this!
INTRO IS THE BEST
Unless there's country music. Wel, we have a terrorist group known as Justice, with four suspected members, Isaac, Jean, Mathis and Rita. There's also somebody convinced Justice is saving the city, but seemingly separate from the group. I sense a roublesome problem involving accomplice logic.

Troublesome problem? Now what would make you think that? Maybe things will be nice and easy this time :cute:



Yay, Laser Cats!
Apollo's swearing seems OOC.
"should have expected it would be something like this[,] knowing her"
Oh, right, the question is who the judge is going to be, since Paul Strings is in jail and Gerald Strings had a career change.
"run out of time[,] and it was all I had left."
"period of time[,] I insisted"
And now that I think about it, why are they in a hotel?
"days ago, and as suspected[,] it appears"
I get the feeling that I've heard this theme before. I just can't place it.
Yay, abduction in perfect security. My first inclincation would be to suggest an inside job, but that's why I know it's wrong. The police will accuse a security person.
"go after next[,] and how long will their tyranny"
"brain... [Y]ou're looking too deeply"
Apollo has to be the inspiration. Lampshade dismissed too hasily.
Note to self: Replay the game to get a start time
Ah, renovations. I feel like looking for bilateral symmetry or ghosts in nurseries.
Watery Fowls... What was the name of the hotel in NYT?

Yes, it was.


Phoenix using a word like "sentiment" seems a bit off.
Apollo's discontent and Trucy's happiness amuse me.
Larry in construction. Awful idea.
Apollo meeting Larry. That would be hilarious. Larry and Trucy would be even better.
Out with it, out with it.
Kristoph out of jail... Odds are: Unlike MSaT, this will be important. Justice broke him out.
Prediction two has been justified.
I feel like having Kristoph be the real leader of Justic would make a good troll theory.

I very much like this one. It's one that could really be expanded upon.



Kristoph had information on Justice...?
Under heavy watch... Sting op?
They know where he is? Is this a controlled or uncontrolled break? If controlled, why did they let it happen? If uncontrolled, how can they know his location?
A fire in Halls... They're going full-cycle.
A coincidence? Get more genre savvy, Phoenix!
[it is you're planning[,] I'm going to stop you"
Kristoph's fault? Get more genre savvy, Apollo!
Over my dead body... Did you have to word it like that?
"oddly enough[,] there seems to be no shortage"
"Plus[,] I've seen stores with even"
It's a Laser Cats store. Isn't it?
Oh, Ema.
Possible motives for the prosecution: insanity, insurance fraud
Murray Burns...
A confession... Another odd component.
Don't Justice fires always start with a gas can? I'm pretty sure the newspapers said that.
"over the lighter[] but not the gas can"
No it doesn't, Ema. His prints should have been on it from when he bought it. This is such an obvious Justice crime...
The situation isn't as bad as you think Apollo. They either have to accuse Burns of being Justice or drop their case.
Most of the damage at Dames despite the fire being started in the other store? How do the police know where it started. By Ace Attorney Forensic Standards (AAFS), the police could get that bit wrong.
Defendant says door was closed before the fire... Every entrance into Dames confirmed (by Ema) blocked except the one from Au Bonheur.
Witness says doors were barricaded from the inside... Really strong windows...
Defendant further says the outside doors were barred, so then he opened the Au Bonheur one. Vents lead toward Dames.
Kavier prosecuting... Why do I suspect a sudden change in prosecutors?

Get less genre-savvy, Enthalpy!


Wait, they brought him out as a condition of his information? I think that's what happened, but it's really unclear.
Billy Peppers, entertainer... I do not trust this guy. I'm no Beatles lover, but isn't his fan Sergeant Peppers' Lonely Hearts Club?
Apollo told him a report was received and most of the damage was done to the next store over. Salem is going to be furious...
Au Bonheur des Dames splits happened a little over a year ago; very sudden...
Trucy Wright: Magician Extraordinaire? I'm honored.
"accepted the contract[,] and I split from the group"
I would laugh if the group was the Gavinners.
*laughs*
Contracts of another kind, doesn't like the law angle, curious about the report... My distrust of this guy grows even larger.
He was a demolitions expert. Calling it now.

A.. demolitions expert? What a strangely specific prediction to make XD


I think Salem is mad.

Ever so slightly.


"burden down[,] and you're being delusional"
"gets to this degree[,] it stops being"
Vera Misham, fashion designer. Huh.
He thinks that the fault was Burns suddenly hating him...
Trucy is trolling
Hate for the courts. Ed Salem, possible Justice member.
"it is totally stupid[,] and I will not blame you if you choose"
The answer is "undefined". Duh.
"ignited the store[,] it sure"
This guy is completely and totally insane.
Wait a minute... It's Scarlet Syndrome. Murray hates the courts because he used to be a lawyer. That's why Justice is going after him next.
Wait... What?! He set the fire to stage his own disappearance becuase Justice was going after him?! What's his law connection?
Trucy appears through the detention center when presenting her.
Huh? Didn't he block the door from the inside? Why would he need to use the side entrance then?
I get the feeling that when we see who this woman is, our minds will explode. Now, what color eyes did Rhea have?
There has to be a code somewhere in that message.
"creeped out by this[,] and I'm not even the one"
Delia seems to be the aforementioned admirer. More creepiness, as if her previous philosophical discourse was inadequate.
These cards are really off. Some of them are bigger than others. "Isaac" is in an odd font. Jack, Ace, Queen, King is out of order.

Yes, we know. Those and the newspaper clippings are placeholders.

"any other scenario[,] you would have failed"
As much as I think Apollo's defending of Burns is horrible, he is right in regards to Rhea and Justice. The two are similar to the extent that both view murder as an acceptable punishment for a person failing to live up to their ideals. The only argument Cordelia can make is that Justice's ideal of "justice" is morally superior to Rhea's ideal of hedonism. The contradiction is that when you assume that a person, of his or her own accord, has the authority or obligation to do such a thing, justice becomes completely arbitrary, just as Rhea's pleasure-seeking was.
Cordelia stopped making sense a while back. This incredibly vague notion of "injustice" is the sort of madness that directly preceded the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror.

You're absolutely right. Naturally, there was an inspiration there.

Apollo, did you really have to give the true answer to Trucy when Cordelia is standing right behind you?
Dry ice.
Wouldn't it be awful if Kristoph picke the wrong store?
This crime report is hilarious. (And also, my suspicions of Salem being a member of Justice just skyrocketed.)
And now that I think about it, Joebert... Something to do with the Canadian judge....
A jammed door and a fake key?
Replica key... This gets more and more interesting.
Never trust Kristoph.


eighthbit >
Spoiler : Theory :
Everyone is suspecting Peppers, so I'll join this Peppers suspecting theory group.
Now... he's a member of Justice, he wants to kill people involved with the reform of the Judicial System because that's what inspired the Gavinners to become an original band. Now, he can't do these things alone, so his accomplice is Ed, now, why would they pretend to be four people? To make the people think that they were many. Actually, Delia could have been in on it, but not a part of it. So, now we have Ed and Peppers, they are Justice, and they probably did the act of burning, and they just didn't calculate that Dames would be burned, because the door jam was random.

And yet another Peppers theory ^^ This one is particularly inspired. Connecting the reform to the Gavinners requires a great imagination.


deHughes >
Spoiler : Running commentary :
- Not deleting the skip intro, shame. Shame on both of your houses.
- Isaac Guard 2012

He'll never win Ohio.

- Interesting intro. Expert timing on it, but a strange song for a murder case… I liked it, however.
- Also, nice use of your avatar there, Mu.
- Man, I forgot how loud sound effects were in AAO.
- I like the idea of Apollo being the one to inspire them. That's a good way to take his character.
- So, I have to say, from the dialogue so far, this may be the best writing I've seen in a fancase. You done good if this opening is any indication.

Thanks ^^

- REFERENCES TO OTHER GAMES
- … Mu… Ping… I love you. So much. Books will make me hate no longer.
- I would have left the music out of the Phoenix area the first time around. Would have made the transition less awkward, and silence can be golden.

You know what? I actually agree on this one.


- Really digging the premise here. Good job, guys.
- Huh, Mall backward bugged out first time around for me. A reload fixed it.
- So he blocked himself in with wood. Because nothing can burn wood.
- I love Peppers character. He's very fun to read.
- I love Salem's character too. Very interesting and enjoyable cast we have here.
- I like him too, Trucy. I like him too.
- Yes, Burns. I will marry you. Your words are the greatest poetry known to man.
- And I like Delia too. Not as much as her theme though. Love that theme.

"Two to Tango", by Al di Meola. As soon as I came up with her character, I knew it had to be her theme.

- Interesting discussion with Delia. I'm excited to see how this theme will play out in the rest of the piece, and how it effects Apollo throughout.
- Annnnnnd gay joke. QUALITY =D
- OH GOD SO MANY REFERENCES HOLY CRAP
- This explains EVERYTHING. The Carr's were super rich, then were robbed. This made Willy go into gambling in hopes of making everything back. Also sets up the political ties of the family.
- … Might steal this a little bit…
- Interesting ending, but it did get a little weird at the end. It "To be continued" then went to the final scene, then one more "to be continued." May have been intentional to mislead players, but the screen kinda skipped around a bit for me, so it was off-putting.

Part of it is intentional, but the screen skipping around isn't. At least not to my knowledge?

Spoiler : Final Report :
That's... quite the report. Thank you so much for your nice comments, and for taking the time to write all this!

My running commentary seems a bit short to me. I decided to not try and think up witty comments, and instead focus all my miniscule brain power to fully focusing on the case itself. Not going to do theories yet, since I want more backing from Phase 2. I'm unsure of how Phase 2 will play out, as I can see it containing some investigation instead of just cutting off to trial straight away. But that may just be my love for investigations slipping in. Anyways, I do want to make some comments in text wall form because of the lacklustre running commentary.

First off, I absolutely love the pacing of this part. Nothing felt like it dragged too long, and I would have to say that very little felt like it went too short. If anything, I think the ending probably felt the least paced, simply because of the lack of visuals. But alas, not much which could have prevented that.

Actually having the visuals would have helped XD

But there's something to be said about never entering a certain room that's at the center of the case.
It's an aspect I liked very much in 3-5 - never seeing the inside of the Kurain temple.


Overall, everything took its time very nicely and kept immersion in the case very high. While references to other works where present, they were not overwhelming, nor immersion breaking. They were nice little easter eggs that add a layer to the enjoyment if you know what they're mentioning. Great execution of them.

The characters, the most important part of a story IMO, were amazing. The canon characters were firmly in-character, aside from a few minor things like the addition of swear words to Apollo's diction. But, you know how I like adding me some language into cases. Apollo and Trucy had a great sense of chemistry that really cement the brother-sister relationship. However, it doesn't hammer it into our faces like other cases. It makes the knowledge of the relationship known, and leaves, letting players see it with their own two eyes instead of having them constantly going "HEY BRO! OH HEY SIS!" Nice use of subtlety and "show, don't tell" with them. Klavier… could have possibly used more German, but I may just be disillusioned by JM. Good job on him, none the less. Ema was very perky, as she should be, though I thought we could see a little more grump. Kristoph, I'm saving a whole note for. Overall, nice work with each character. You managed to get their character down while missing little, and what was missed was minor.

The OCs are, as you can tell from my notes above, something I enjoyed greatly. Each one had a strong personality and gave off the feel of being nicely rounded characters instead of just words on a screen.

Billy Peppers manages to topple my fears of him potentially just being a big Beatles joke. Each aspect of his character adds something more to him, and makes him feel real. He isn't just "Hey, that's a song!" He is a true person in the TRev world. He is a talented musician, as well as a war veteran. He has ties to previous characters, and a strong set of beliefs which he abides by. In fact, I would say that Peppers may be the greatest example of how strong the OCs are in this case, by virtue of being the first we see. As we talk about Pepper's role in history, we see that he has a lasting impact on the world. Seemingly off-hand things are given just enough screentime for us to grasp them and incorporate them into our view of the character. We see that he has strong regards for integrity and respect for his work. He stands by what he believes in, and will never step down from a fight presented to him. He is a knowledgeable and respectable man, who could either serve as our best friend or worst nightmare in this case. Everything about him oozes style, and a strong head resting on his two shoulders. I can outright say that I'm biased towards Peppers, however. His speech about respecting his work and making sure nothing got in the way of it resonates with me quite strongly, and he won me over the first second he mentioned leaving the Gavinners due to creative differences. In a weak character(or a purposely designed super-hipster) that would come off as, well, hipster "fight the man" babble. But with Peppers, that comes out as sheer respect for his work and creative difference from Klavier and the rest of the band. Or I'm just a super hipster and am blind to it. Who knows.

Super-hipsters unite!

You sure see a lot in this character.
It's always great when you see players explore your characters in such depth... we spent a lot of time on the cast, exploring everyone's different dimensions, how they go about life... I felt it was essential to a case like this.


Ed Salem's seemingly split-personality is an interesting character trait, and fits the flimflam man look of his sprites extremely well. His energetic persona, and the music that comes along with it, provide a great conman feel from the character and make him extremely fun to read. The speed of his talking matches the design of the character, as all old school conmen seem to have a habit of running words by you so fast, that you can't even comprehend a word they're saying and just making you say yes to whatever they're selling. This is topped off quite well with the abrupt transitions to the slow paced, rage filled second person that lives in his head. This acts as a strong contrast to the almost lyrical vibe Happy!Salem gives with the destructive bursts of anger. They're too completely different people, who alone would get old, but compliment each other perfectly and ensure that reading the character never gets old. Him stealing 50k from my OCs and get away with it also makes him a perfect conman.

Haha :p

Murray Burns… is quite the enigma. His design screams "mystery" and everything about the character seems to match that. While the eyes are the window the soul, seeing only the window, and not the frame surrounding it makes me quite unsettled. Seeing his eyes, and nothing but his eyes, wrapped up in a long trenchcoat and fedora makes him quite the mystery right off the bat with a strong visual impression.

On top of the enigmatic aspect, there's a noir feel to the sprite I really liked from the start. He reminded me of Jack Nicholson in Chinatown.

Amazing use of sprites right there. The first words we, indirectly, hear from Burn's are a great indication of the ride we're about to head out on, and Burn's serves as the turning point in the game. Burns is the first point where the case gets weeeeeird, and not just with his codeword deal. His paranoia and fear accompany his knowledge into a great framework that truly sets up Justice in an amazing light. He takes the facts of the case and turns them on their head. While most cases gives a less than satisfactory approach with their initial theory for how the crime ran down, Burn's "confession" is something that I would be satisfied with if I was presented with it at the end of the case. The inclusion of heavy paranoia and conspiracy only adds to that in a way that truly sets up the case to be something great.

...You REALLY have a knack for putting the right words on our intentions XD

Cordelia VeLind, the owner of the best theme in this game. As well as the presenter of, what appears to be, the big themes of the game. Delia is not just a fun character to read, but the presenter of the question of "Do the ends justify the means." A popular theme for murder mysteries with a heavy story focus, I'm sure. She raises questions and makes the player, and Apollo, THINK. Can't say much as the theme hasn't been fully wrapped up, and I'd rather save all my gushing for when I can take a look at the big picture. She's fun though, and is a very good way of presenting the theme of the case.

Finally, Kristoph Gavin. Now, this will largely be theoretical compliments. Kristoph serves as a great moral trigger for Apollo, a great framing device in the mystery of the case, and an expert deception trigger. Much like most cases, TRev starts out as a slice of life and then breaks down into a more intense tale with the revelation of something deeper. But what most cases don't have is Kristoph, a character whom has been built up for an entire game prior to release. And if they do, they lack him playing an actual role. Kristoph only appears three times in the entire part, but each of those three times are solidly the most memorable parts of their respective acts. Beginning, middle, end. Each involves an appearance from Kristoph, and each is done amazingly. Beginning sets up Kristoph as a serious threat and villain to Apollo, a man who he cannot stand and yet, once loved. Middle throws him into Apollo's life once more, only to be greeted with a polite smile and a casual sense of presentation. Ending… well, I don't need to say WHY that's memorable. Kristoph is never physically involved in any part of the case for… I'd say 15 frames. And yet, he's the biggest mark of the case. He is what sticks out, even though everything about him is left in the dark. Is he the criminal? Is he even involved? Why is he doing what he's doing? Nothing is given, and yet there is a serious sense of completeness in just SEEING Kristoph again. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.


See above. We're really flattered...


And that's an essay on the first part of what is sure to be an amazing case. Don't want to go into toooooo much depth, because I need to save something for my final report… which will probably actually be a real essay. So yeah, good job.



Once again, thanks a lot!

Reading this made me very happy. Not just that you liked the case, but that you thought about it so much.

I hope you will enjoy the rest =)
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Revolution (phase 2 is out!) ○

Post by Enthalpy »

My Running Theory:
Spoiler : :
This is going to seem a bit weird, but I think I know who the real mastermind behind Justice is. Prepare to be blown away.

It's Apollo Justice himself. Remember the MLJ-5 virus in TSub? Ema assured us that it was harmless, but I think that it just wasn't tested well enough. In normal human beings, MLJ-5, after a latency period of two to three months, induces highly violent alternate personalities. When Erlenmeyer played with his mice back in TSub, he contracted MLJ-5 and later passed it on to Apollo. The obvious question is why others didn't exhibit symptoms. The reasoning for Rhea and Erlenmeyer is obvious. They were already crazy, so the virus couldn't mess with them any further. Due to having the MLJ-5 with which to infect the mice, we can assume that Erlenmeyer was familiar with the virus from before he was tried. He had an acquired immunity, so his body was able to defeat the virus shortly after contraction. Nobody else would have come into contact with Erlenmeyer or Rhea except the arresting officers. However they wore gloves! Due to no physical contact, there was no vector. Thus, only Apollo exhibits symptoms!

Once Apollo contracted the virus, he became Justice, all by himself! (A side effect of the disorder is each personality having little to no memory of the other.) The stealing, burning, abducting and killing all come because this alternate personality bases itself in the part of Apollo's brain that remembers the events of Turnabout Serenade. After all, what crimes did Daryan commit? He stole the Borgonian cocoon and Gavin's keys he burned Gavin's guitar he abducted Machi, and he killed Romein LeTouse. But why does Apollo use Jean, Mathis, Isaac and Rita? Those four are the other members of the Gavinners! (The astute may notice that there were only five Gavinners on the mixing board while my theory calls for six Gavinners. Isaac was the head tech guy.) Also, this theory explains Justice's supernatural abilities. After having beaten three locked rooms and a case where the witness phsically couldn't have done anything and saw only the victim and his client, Apollo knows all the tricks. He's a modern Byrne Faraday.

That night, Apollo, acting as his evil self, who I'll call Hades, arrived at Au Donheur to try and burn it down. Just at this time, Burns tried his own plot to fake his death. Hades, however, saw it. Not willing to be out-gambitted, he blocked the side door from the outside, forcing an evacuation through the door between the stores. This would mean he went through the fire, requiring the hospitalization. Burns tried to burn down the store, but Apolo is really Justice!

As for Kristoph, I direct you to the cage in Turnabout of Courage.
I'll have a real theory after I finish part one of Tomorrow, which comes after scaling Mt. Homework That I Put Off Yesterday.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Revolution (phase 2 is out!) ○

Post by kwando1313 »

@Ping: Playing through Phase 2 right now, but your Public Links have been disabled. (I'll post thoughts afterwards, just wanted to let you know.) ;)
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Revolution (phase 2 is out!) ○

Post by Gumpei »

Ngaaaaa you mean none of the music works? T_T I was worried about this happening...

...and that also means that the sprites don't work. Dammmiiiiiit

Ping' take the link down for now. T_T
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Revolution ○

Post by Ping' »

Done.

Apparently there was too much traffic...

Our sincerest apologies for the incident, we will get things back in order as soon as possible.

When we do, we will release part 3 along with the rest to make up for this.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Revolution ○

Post by Blackrune »

Well, I know the feel.
This is not the same without the music.

Hope they're up again soon. (because BP hasn't judged this one yet.)
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Revolution (phase 2 is out!) ○

Post by kwando1313 »

Phase 2 thoughts gooooooooooo.

Also, this post gets to be lucky post 1000. Yay~
Spoiler : Thoughts, and Stuff :
Duhh... Of course I'll play with TSub spoilers.
It's always murder isn't it. :D
Also, is the lack of music here on purpose? O.o
So, the whole arson thing... Was a complete bait and switch? O.o
Nick vs. Edgeworth again? Boo. I wanted to see Nick vs. Hazama Klavier.
OH GOSH THAT'S A HUGE EVIDENCE DUMP
Also, I can't see a bunch of the pictures. :/
Vivian... Snow? Isn't that the corrupt defense attorney from Judgement Seekers?
Also, oh noes, dead Polly. :(
I guess it's a good lead-in to GS5. I guess this could be "his promise". :p
I am very much reminded of Departed in terms of the circumstances of the trial.
Also, 9:00 AM? Shouldn't it be 10:00 AM?
Hmm... No custom content is loading for me...
Uh oh, your dropbox public links have been disabled Gumping. You're too popular! :p >.< So, I won't be able to do music critiques! :(
As a result, I see an invisible judge. Who, unfortunately, is not Ballard. I am disappoint.
Dundadun, Nick will change his plea to guilty if he finds out he is guilty.
Woah! Gumshoe! It's nice to see him again. :D
1st testimony... Time to press like mad!
Hmm... Polly was knocked unconscious before his death? I'm a bit suspicious about that... Because, from what we knew, if Kristoph shot him, it would've been right there and then.
Hmm... The gun that was used /was/ the gun that was stolen from him... Stop trying to make us think about Justice, Gumping! :p
I presented the Grate to No Escape. Hopefully that's right? O.o
Oh good, that's what I needed to end the cross examination.
Hmph. For once, a solid Gumshoe testimony. Are you sure you're not making an AU trial Gumping? :p
Well duh, of course Kristoph was the reason Polly took the arson case.
Speaking of that... What was the result of that trial?
Also, want to theorize a bit here... I wonder if Burns could be a part of Justice. I mean, he seems to know too much, but who knows?
I don't think Kristoph is lying here... Why would he lie about having the gun, and his intentions, but not having the key?
Klavier's our first witness? Achtung, baby!
Klavier: Why are you defending him? Good question. But, I've always wanted a case where Nick defends a person he found guilty. :D (I remember a long time ago, when I wanted to make a case where Nick defends Matt Engarde... But that was ages past, and I still can't write, so wahoo for that.)
Angry Klavier is angry. Also, you there's a proceed button where there shouldn't be one. Unless, this is an issue with me playing with quick text on. >.<
Sounded like... When Daryan knocked a glass statue over? CLEARLY, THIS IS A CLUE FOR THE FUTURE. This will be the key for the entire trial!
Wait... is the reason Trucy isn't your co-council... Because she's a witness for this trial? O.o
Kristoph: Always nice seeing how much family means nowadays. Aww... That's so sweet! :P
And the contradiction is exactly what I thought it would be! Yay! I love it when this happens!
Jammed doors again? Jeesh, it seems like such a cop-out. :/
"Just sat and started at the three of them, looking for any signs of activity." I presume you mean stared at the doors.
And since the images can't load, I'm going to be stuck here. So, I guess partial thoughts for now. Oh wellz.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Revolution ○

Post by Wooper »

Dangit, I finished part 1 just in time for part 2 to be taken down.

Don't expect any crazy theories from me, I'm pretty braindead right now.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Revolution ○

Post by kwando1313 »

@Wooper: Even if you had the link, you wouldn't be able to advance... ;)
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