[T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★

Find and discuss trials made by other members and showcase your own trials.

Moderators: EN - Forum Moderators, EN - Trial Reviewers

User avatar
DWaM
Posts: 1763
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:23 am
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English
Location: The Kingdom of Ellipses

Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ●

Post by DWaM »

Bad Player wrote:Why didn't you post the invisiclues for part 3? :P
Well, I guess I just wanted to get straight to the point. IMHO, they were sorta way to cryptic to being with, and most players would've just jumped to the answer (not to mention, considering that the questions do contain spoilers unless you've gotten to Part 3, it would've been... a bit troublesome, I suppose).
Enthalpy wrote:After thinking it over, I have my theory.
Spoiler : Running Theory :
First, let's assemble the parameters necessary to create the impossible crime.

1. At some point in time, between 8 PM and 9 PM on October 14th, a gunshot was heard from Room 913 of Powers Employment Offices.
2. At this same point in time, the bullet that produced the gunshot punctured Groud's left lung, killing him within three minutes.
3. The killer was in the room where the crime occurred.
4. Only Yalt and Groud were at the place of death and the time of death.
5. Groud did not commit suicide.

Examining these, it would be a cheap end if it was a suicide all along. Assuming conditions one and two, condition four is a fact unless a person was able to hide on Floor 9 and then escape the lockdown without suspicion. Condition three is a possible problem, but because Yalt's prints are on the gloves, this is highly unlikely. Condition one is a fact. So, what's left?

The core of my theory is breaking condition two. I maintain that Groud was already dead before the gunshot was heard. The obvious problem is that the gunshot is the listed cause of death in the autopsy report, but the autopsy report is unreliable. In ignoring all injuries that could reasonably have been inflicted by the fall, it prematurely eliminates several potential causes of death. As proof of my theory, I present the Visitor's List and the Cell Phone. Groud arrived approximately two hours before he supposedly called Christine. Either he waited two hours before deciding to do something, or the person who placed the call was not him. Possiblity one is unlikely, so possibility two is favored. If a different person placed the call, they ran the risk of the real E showing up. This leads to a high probability of E being dead before the call was placed.

I accuse Masterson of this murder. Although no solid evidence of his guilt exists, Masterson knew Christine Yalt's name at the time of arrest, even though it was established that the only items she had on her person were the card, the gun, and the cell phone. Further, the killer knew what was happening in court during the time that Masterson was on the stand.

I suspect that Groud escaped through some unknown, coincidental method. Masterson received the anonymous tip about E, but he followed it far before he claims. He found and killed Groud, perhaps through a beating or torque applied to the neck. Perhaps he wanted revenge on Groud for something related to Cross's father. However, Masterson had to conceal the brutality used. He left and summoned Yalt, using his own burn phone. (Masterson used a different alias for entering and leaving.) Yalt knew Masterson and wanted to conceal his crime for some unknown reason. It is likely that she is in law enforcement despite her young age, explaining the presence of gun and bullets as well as the encryption. She willingly took the fall.

She propped Groud's body, somehow unnoticed, against the window and fired. The killing blow was on the chest, so she taped the card to Groud's body over the wound, intent on removing the anomaly with the gunshot. As expected, the force of the bullet shattered the window. Not only did this create a fake cause of death, but the real cause of death was made inconspicuous.
This is... highly impressive! :D If it's right or wrong, I won't comment, of course, but the general thing about my "mysteries" (heavy quotation marks are there on purpose) is that they're less dictated by actual theorizing and more about the story actually unraveling, as kwando pointed out. It's amazing that it's only the end of Part 1, and you have a quite solid theory that (at this point, anyway) doesn't contradict what's been established earlier. That's pretty awesome! :P

Also, thanks for the report. Dem spelling mistakes~
User avatar
Bad Player
Posts: 7228
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 10:53 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: American
Location: Under a bridge

Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ●

Post by Bad Player »

DWaM wrote:
Bad Player wrote:Why didn't you post the invisiclues for part 3? :P
Well, I guess I just wanted to get straight to the point. IMHO, they were sorta way to cryptic to being with, and most players would've just jumped to the answer (not to mention, considering that the questions do contain spoilers unless you've gotten to Part 3, it would've been... a bit troublesome, I suppose).
But the last clue always flat-out tells you the answer xP
User avatar
DWaM
Posts: 1763
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:23 am
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English
Location: The Kingdom of Ellipses

Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ●

Post by DWaM »

My point, exactly. :P
User avatar
kwando1313
Posts: 7684
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:33 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English, Français (un peu), Ancient Belkan
Location: Uminari City

Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ●

Post by kwando1313 »

And so, I get to write a review! Yay!
Spoiler : Review. Note: Contains Spoilers for the Entire Case :
Story:
I must say, the plot in this case was quite compelling. The initial premise of a seemingly open-and-shut case where it seemed obvious that Yalt killed Grout, since all the evidence and the witnesses point to that conclusion. However, you put in some excellent plot twists in the case. Even with such little evidence, we are able to solve so much. We don't get overloaded with evidence: instead, we are forced to think about how the crime must have occurred in order to solve for how it happened. However, we don't even need to be in super-theory mode, as you help us unravel the mystery as time goes on. As well, even though you used stock sprites, you were able to change them into new and refreshing characters. And no point in time did Cross feel like a Phoenix clone, or Yalt feel like a Trucy clone. E felt like a genuinely... creepy character, to say the least. And of course, we have my favorite plot twist: that Cross is actually E.

Gameplay/Difficulty:
Well, not really gameplay per-se,but I'm sure you understand what I mean. The contradictions, for the most part, were quite fair. I did quite like the fact that there was a minefield testimony (it really wasn't that bad), and how we had to choose the "nothing" option in Part 1 (which, again, defies AA-normalcies), and of course, I loved the "True End" who we had to fail in order to win. However, there were some instances of "unfair difficulty". That giant section in Part 2 where everything was an unlimited penalty was.. quite a bummer. As well, the whole code is a bit tricky, especially if you never used a non-QWERTY phone before. Lastly, the fake name requires too much "outside knowledge" for my liking (I had no idea that it was an Edgar Allen Poe name, I had to source code cheat through that.) However, the crime's essence in itself is quite fair. The way it was unraveled is quite fair. As a result, there are spikes in difficulty, but the case itself isn't too hard.

Music:
The music choices, all in all, were usually quite fitting. I can't really remember any specific themes at this time, but one that I do remember is E's theme. Perfect amount of creepiness in that music. As well, I quite like the music that is played throughout the trial (one specific instance was during the bad ending. That song. I can't remember where else it is played. >.<) However, there are some places where I felt that the music transitions were a bit rushed. Also, you could've used the Orchestrated version of Judge Hakari's theme. ;)

Overall, this is a great case to play. Good story, good characterization, good difficulty, and good music.
Avatar made by Rimuu~

Image

"The Knight of the Iron Hammer, Vita, and the Steel Count, Graf Eisen. There's nothing in this world we can't destroy."
User avatar
DWaM
Posts: 1763
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:23 am
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English
Location: The Kingdom of Ellipses

Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ●

Post by DWaM »

Thanks! :D

And yes, I agree that Part 3 delves into the unfair quite a bit. I have not yet come across a person that has actually been able to beat it without looking for a walkthrough or hint at least once. XD

As for the music, ironically enough, your favourite track, as it happens isn't from Umineko, unlike the good amount of music in the trial. Which reminds me, probably should post a list of music used... Even though a seasoned Umineko-fan would probably be able to recognize most of them.

Also, about a certain non-use of the orchestrated theme...
Spoiler : :
I wasn't actually sure if it counted as spoiler-y or not, since nowhere in the rules does is say anything about orchestrated versions of GK 2 music. Kinda stupid, I know, but I was trying to play it safe, I suppose. Something else I might eventually change. :P
User avatar
kwando1313
Posts: 7684
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:33 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English, Français (un peu), Ancient Belkan
Location: Uminari City

Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ●

Post by kwando1313 »

Oh that reminds me!
Spoiler : :
You better make that playable Hazama ending. ;)
Avatar made by Rimuu~

Image

"The Knight of the Iron Hammer, Vita, and the Steel Count, Graf Eisen. There's nothing in this world we can't destroy."
User avatar
DWaM
Posts: 1763
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:23 am
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English
Location: The Kingdom of Ellipses

Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ●

Post by DWaM »

Well geez, there go all my hopes of keeping it a surprise. XD
User avatar
kwando1313
Posts: 7684
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:33 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English, Français (un peu), Ancient Belkan
Location: Uminari City

Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ●

Post by kwando1313 »

Huehuehue. :D But maybe I was just not telling the truth there?

Also, congrats for winning the Case Comp DWaM!
Avatar made by Rimuu~

Image

"The Knight of the Iron Hammer, Vita, and the Steel Count, Graf Eisen. There's nothing in this world we can't destroy."
User avatar
Bad Player
Posts: 7228
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 10:53 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: American
Location: Under a bridge

Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ●

Post by Bad Player »

So why is this case not featured being QA'd yet?
User avatar
DWaM
Posts: 1763
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:23 am
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English
Location: The Kingdom of Ellipses

Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ●

Post by DWaM »

Mainly because every bone in my body is telling me it won't pass it due to the extreme difficulty of Part 3. :P (Which, I'm not exactly willing to tone down...)
Last edited by DWaM on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
kwando1313
Posts: 7684
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:33 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English, Français (un peu), Ancient Belkan
Location: Uminari City

Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ●

Post by kwando1313 »

Maybe cuz he hasn't asked yet?

(But gogogo do it man)
Avatar made by Rimuu~

Image

"The Knight of the Iron Hammer, Vita, and the Steel Count, Graf Eisen. There's nothing in this world we can't destroy."
User avatar
Bad Player
Posts: 7228
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 10:53 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: American
Location: Under a bridge

Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ●

Post by Bad Player »

kwando1313 wrote:(But gogogo do it man)
Dwammit, just ask already! If NYT's photo contradiction got passed, anything can :P
User avatar
kwando1313
Posts: 7684
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:33 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English, Français (un peu), Ancient Belkan
Location: Uminari City

Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ●

Post by kwando1313 »

Exactly! I mean, TPairs got passed too dwammit!
Avatar made by Rimuu~

Image

"The Knight of the Iron Hammer, Vita, and the Steel Count, Graf Eisen. There's nothing in this world we can't destroy."
User avatar
DWaM
Posts: 1763
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:23 am
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English
Location: The Kingdom of Ellipses

Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ●

Post by DWaM »

Alright, fine, fine...

...But seriously, though, I should probably fix all those spelling mistakes and other stuff before actually submitting it. XP
User avatar
SwagmaWampyr
Posts: 7338
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:15 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English, Basic 1337
Location: The mucky muck castle made of clouds

Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ●

Post by SwagmaWampyr »

So anyway I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks synopses only spoil the case. :P

(Oh, and longer dialogue drags out, the better, so we agree on that too)

Just want to let you know I've started playing. I think actually getting some of the things in ATTT gave my pathetically low intelligence a slight boost, so I THINK I could get a good ways in without getting stumped, but we'll see.
The one and only Rated B member.
Engaged to Gumpei <3
ImageImageImage
Image
Image
Post Reply