[T] Turnabout Curtain ●

[Sligneris]

Spoiler : :

Yeah, but at the beginning it feels utterly irrelevant.

[Enthalpy]

Spoiler : :

I have to disagree with you, kwnaod. Just because the city happens to have canals does not mean that your average basement floods on a regular basis. It honestly sounds like a Glase Canon argument. If Venice does have flooding problems enough to make that murder method viable, then it has such a high outside knowledge requirement that the puzzle is ridiculous for another reason.

[ventuswings]

Spoiler : :

I didn't even know Venice was actually relevant. Took 'suicide' -> 'no key' 'hole' 'victim' route. Thought it was weird that Shannon initially tried to penalize Phoenix...

I also concur that Venice conclusion seem to be reach, as I also did not know Venice was associated with periodic flooding and that was related to the question. While I guess this is one of those clueless mysteries or something, the game should really have brought up the fact about Venice and flooding somewhere before.

[AidanB]

Spoiler : :

I got the Apollo going to the mansion and confronting himself path. Is there anyway i could get Prometheus to stay, i did figure out his identity.

[kwando1313]

Spoiler : :

I got the Apollo going to the mansion and confronting himself path. Is there anyway i could get Prometheus to stay, i did figure out his identity.

Spoiler : :

No.

[Scarlet_black]

Spoiler : :( :

Is there anyway to save Apollo from Evil Apollo? Or do we have to convict him in the end to reach the end of the Question Arc?

[kwando1313]

Spoiler : :( :

Is there anyway to save Apollo from Evil Apollo? Or do we have to convict him in the end to reach the end of the Question Arc?

Spoiler : :

You need to convict~

[Scarlet_black]

Spoiler : D: :

So essentially the whole story is a downer ending for Apollo? You cannot win against Evil Apollo and you have to convict him in order to "win"....


Now I feel sad

[Enthalpy]

Spoiler : Part 2 SoC :

Now for Part 2. The last one got a bit stressful, so I’m going to try slowing my pace a bit.
4565 frames. Yeah, this could easily take me a while.
Looking at the profiles, how is Kristoph Gavin responsible for anything?
What happened to Apollo? He looks a bit like Richard Groud.
None of Groupollo’s sprites have talking animations. Weird.
Oh dear. Apollo has gone a bit crazy.
Frame 0094: Edgeworth speaks on the ellipsis.
So it seems that Apollo is on trials, and the roles of prosecutor and defense are reversed. Very… interesting.
Doctor?
Forgot about that no fast-clicking thing.
Frame 0170: “Mr.”
Oh, this is related to Apollo’s prologue from the prologue, which is rather long to be a prologue, come to think of it.
A psychologist? Oh dear. Maybe I spoke a little too strongly earlier.
Frame 0191: The two uses of “ifs” are awkward.
There was a last time?
Fame 0198: Danter speaks on the ellipsis.
Is the similarity to Dante intentional?
Frame 0199: Ellipsis speech.
This psychologist really rubs me the wrong way.
Apollo has timed it himself? Obsession.
Now that I think about it, this does raise a very good point. How did Prometheus get to the Lure mansion? If he used a personal vehicle, it raises questions about where that vehicle is now. Surely the police searched the area. If he used public transportation, there are problems with the fact that he arrived shortly before Phoenix and Apollo, he themselves used public transportation. Not to mention that their train was two hours late, so it would have to mean that he used a different train line. This indicates that Prometheus either walked or had an accomplice drive him.
Frame 0236: Either “I thought you would like to ride a train.” Or “I thought you liked to ride trains.”
“Dawn Executioner”…? I’m sure that’s a reference, but I’m not sure what to.
What is Frame 261 doing?
Apollo does seem to have a shorter fuse than normal when with Trucy on the train, even when working a murder case.
That letter?
Frame 0353: “end”
What is Frame 374 doing?
Frame 0415: Comma splice.
How can Trucy assume that Apollo has a crush on Shannon?
Frame 0463: It shouldn’t be Mr., but I can’t recall if it’s Ms. or Mrs.
Frame 0476: “but”
Right… We saw Edgeworth talk with Maya, but it wouldn’t make sense if Edgeworth was out doing that all day.
Actually Apollo, I don’t know what you’re talking about. How would telling her about Lure make her any more involved?
Frame 0628: Danter talks on the ellipsis.
Lure, how can you condemn Phoenix for being immoral if you reject morality in favor of unmitigated self-interest?
Frame 0655: Lure talks on the ellipsis.
Wait… Lure knew she would die, and didn’t resist? … What. That’s inconsistent for a person like Lure, unless she somehow knew she wo- … Umineko. Tricks are being played with time, aren’t they?
Why Frame 761? What is this, some attempt at subliminal messaging?
Frame 0762: “then”
“I’d rather fight for [Trucy] than magic.” Umineko…
Frame 0810: Ellipsis speech.
Trucy, you’re being a bit rash. If I’m right about my time tricks theory…
Okay, so if this occurred after the fire, we know that Phoenix was alive after the fire.
Frame 1006: “me, and”
This rain has got to be important. Somehow.
Come to think of it, it was mentioned that Phoenix was bleeding from his head wound. That would seem to imply that there should be blood on the shards, but there isn’t.
Let’s look around a bit.
Frame 1463: “Miss’s”
A mystery bullet hole… Very peculiar.
The phone is 6…
Time-traveling witch. Aha! You’re going to be playing that straight later!
Frame 2027: “this at school”
Math and Latin…
Frame 2035: “on”
B is for Beatrice?
The comfy chair? Not… the comfy chair! The only thing that could make it worse is a cup of coffee, although it is past eleven. Then again, that would be expected.
The Mysterious Fridge Looter? Although, come to think of it… Wasn’t there an empty fridge elsewhere? Was it refrigerated?
Hypnosis… Ugh. You can get into pseudo-science really quickly. It is nigh impossible to use hypnosis to get someone to do something they wouldn’t otherwise do.
Frame 2137: “to be alright”
The lack of music at this part of the game is very off-putting. I know you have the ambulances, but that doesn’t seem enough.
Frame 2152: Comma splice. “stay”
Umineko theme.
Frame 2185: Comma splice. “You’re”
Frame 2277: “possible, considering”
You found Wright’s corpse? Impossible. Wright talked to Maya Fey the day after.
Frame 2403: “afterwards, and”
More Umineko themes.
Come on, clarify your red. Which Phoenix Wright was it?
Apollo killed Andrea Lure, who murdered for enjoyment. What.
Frame 2593: “make”
Frame 2598: “are”
Frame 2611: “disappeared”
Frame 2619: “they’re”
Isn’t right to let this guy take the fall?
Frame 2657: “can”
… The defense is here, you know.
Frame 2672: “will”
Frame 2675: “it was one”
Guilty. Yeah right.
Frame 2701: “go”
Frame 2710: “build”
Frame 2780: “just”
Apollo knows things that he shouldn’t?
Frame 2801: “is”
Frame 2827: “we”
Frame 2854: “this”; “way uncalled”
Frame 2868: “like, and”
Frame 2871: “over”
Now that I think about it, interruptions of the opening argument are usually never allowed in real courts.
Frame 2878: “outbursts, and”
Frame 2879: “statement, and”
Frame 2889: “will”
Frame 2931: “two”
Greyscale zoom-in of Apollo? Huh?
Frame 2984: “Grossberg, and”
Frame 3082: “and”
Weird comment by Grossberg there.
Huh? Why is the bullet contradictory?
Frame 3563: “system, or”
Frame 3565: “unfortunately”
Grossberg is jittery at the mention of the drug…
Frame 3698: “when”
Frame 3714: “he”
Frame 3846: “since”
He spiked the tea before getting the key? I’d say that’s speculation.
Frame 3863: “he”
Frame 3865: “couldn’t”
Accidentally clicked too fast at the dialogue.
Huh? Was that Phoenix?
Frame 4019: “accusation, and”
Looked at the source. I’m not seeing a problem with this trial, honestly, except that at least one of the witnesses should testify.
Frame 4027: Ellipsis speech.
Coughing? Maybe he took that heart medicine.
Frame 4055: “attorney”
Inlestrigin poisoning, anyone?
Frame 4135: “minute, and”
I’m just as confused as you, Apollo, if not more so.
Frame 4320: “well, what”
Apollo is the murderer? I still don’t buy it.
Frame 4362: “and”
Thou shalt not murder, anyone?
Ah, two hours late. That makes sense.
Frame 4386: “and”
Frame 4402: “and”
And then I… ahaha.wav?
So Apollo had murderous intent, but he didn’t kill her. Something went wrong.
Yeah, this is too easy.
Cross… What?

Spoiler : Part 3 SoC :

3400 frames. I can take this. Is it a bit sad that I find 3400 frames to be a bit short, now? Curse this competition.
Frame 0045: Ellipsis speech.
Frame 0066: “lobby, you”; “Prometheus’s”
Will we be delivering or cross-examining?
And there’s that strange grey graphic again.
I’ll go with telling the complete truth.
Best not mention the conversation with Lure. I don’t know enough details.
Frame 0172: Ellipsis speech.
Frame 0253: “plausible”
Ugh… That bit about the tea being spiked then doesn’t sound right to me.
On second thought, it does. Shouldn’t have selected that.
Frame 0357: “publically”
Selected that she looked a bit sick, since she coughed.
Yeah, I don’t remember if Apollo saw her actually go upstairs.
Frame 0645: “but”
Cross is Loranz.
Oh, the chair.
Frame 0698: Ellipsis speech.
Come on, that’s not Wright!
Frame 0765: “let”
Frame 0800: “to”
Great. The case I know next to nothing about. So much for “tell the truth”!
Frame 0805: “without”
Why is Godot not objecting relevance here?
You can’t say that because something involves two witnesses to a crime, it’s relevant to the crime.
… Apollo is connected to Rokkenjima. What.
Come on, object, Godot! Badgering!
Frame 0891: Comma splice.
Frame 0961: Meaning uncertain.
Snap out of it! I’m positive that you didn’t kill her, Apollo.
Frame 1058: “here, and”
Frame 1121: “first-hand, you’d”
Frame 1122: “sense”
*applause* Yes, Apollo, restrict your focus to before, during, and after an event. Way to go!
I’ll start with before.
Frame 1164: “that, I”
Frame 1190: “who I am”
Frame 1199: “then”
Frame 1245: “at”
Frame 1247: “then”
Frame 1262: “required”
Beatrice is not a verb.
Frame 1316: “possession”
Frame 1337: “identity. I”
You can choose things to remember or forget? Okay… Well, I have now “remembered” that he was unaware of the master key and balcony problem.
Frame 1365: “alone. She’s”
Frame 1383: “and”
Frame 1394: “end, my”
Okay, I don’t think there’s a contradiction there, but I do hate long testimonies without good hints.
Frame 1476: “your”
Wait, how did he know about the dinner problem?
Frame 1641: “morning, to”
Frame 1652: “that”
… He ignored the vase shards. He ignored the vase shards. I’m terrified of what this contradiction means.
Frame 1721: “all, and”
Frame 1808: “is”
Also, now that I think about it… Why didn’t he try the bedroom key?
Frame 1889: “breathing, and”
Ah, no time to do anything.
Alright… Now it’s a matter of finding the contradiction, since everything is pressed.
No penalties. Thank you for your great mercy, O DWaM. I could have sworn the lack of blood on the shards would have been a contradiction, though.
Now finding a contradiction…
First, checking in the source code to get a guarantee of the existence of a contradiction for all parts… And yes.
Paradox End. Blast.
Come to think of it…
I’ll admit that I cheated a bit to come up with this contradiction. Stumbled upon “promceescape” in the source code and switched to looking for contradictions relevant to his escape. This is one I considered earlier, but rejected. The fact that the master key couldn’t open the balcony isn’t a fact that I’d imagine Prometheus would know, even if he does know a freakish amount about everything else. The maid would never even go into the room, and who heard of a non-master master key? If Prometheus had specifically mentioned practicing the plan instead of exploring the mansion when the two of them were out, I could see this being fair. As it is, it’s a bit too much.
Frame 2158: “stage, and”
Frame 2175: “then”
In my opinion, the hint for the gun present should be clarified so that it reads more like, “If escape wasn’t a part of his plan, then this piece of evidence doesn’t make any sense!”
Frame 2207: “take an enemy”
Puzzle? Didn’t either Cross or Groud have some sort of puzzle theme last time?
What?
So this is how it is. Fine then, I’ll deny Apollo’s guilt until the end.
Prometheus shot something else? Objection. Ballistic markings, anyone?
Frame 2429: “Prometheus’s”
Ah.
Frame 2468 and onwards have missing spaces.
ahaha.wav That’s the best you’ve got? That Apollo returned Phoenix to the bench isn’t proof of success. It’s proof that he didn’t want Phoenix to know about his absence, and proof that he intended for them to go to Lure’s mansion.
… Did I somehow mess that scene “against Apollo” up? His whole reasoning that Apollo committed the murder is incredibly far from unsubstantiated. I’m so confused.
Frame 3376: “and”

Spoiler : General Thoughts :

I can certainly agree with this entry receiving first place. Honestly, I don't have that much to say. Everything was perfect except for three aspects.

First off, the grammar, which I already pointed out. Secondly, Prometheus's cross-examination needs that tiny tweak of saying that he had practiced the murder. Lastly... I still deny that Apollo killed anyone, and I can't follow any of the logic that he did. This case is bananas, but it honestly feels like I'm watching somebody else go bananas while puzzling to myself what's happening. I see no basis for accusing Apollo at this time, to be perfectly honest. Did he plan to? Probably. Did he? Doubted.

[DWaM]

Ah, thanks for the detailed review.

Spoiler : :

Yeah, my grammar really isn't the best, admittedly. While we tried getting most of the errors out of the way, it didn't quite work, evidently. We'll get around to them eventually.

I sorta disagree on the Prometheus testimony part - I'd say it's relatively fair - especially considering there's multiple ways to solve it. The entire "Before the murder" testimony serves to get that "he should know everything" message into their head. Everything else can be considered a standard PW contradiction from then on, in my opinion.

Finally, I'll leave the Apollo issue up to your interpretation. The "battle against himself" was actually supposed to be just that - it's essentially just his subconscious trying to drag him down. There's a major part of what he's trying to "tell" Apollo missing and there is a reason for that.

[Scarlet_black]

Spoiler : Part 3? :

Is getting to the end of the Question Arc in Part 2 a mistake? And if so, where should I look for the mistake there?

[DWaM]

Spoiler : :

That's not a mistake. It simply means you finished half of the case. The other half still isn't done. In true Umineko fashion - there's question arc, and answer arc.

[Scarlet_black]

Spoiler : OMGOMGOMG :

I BEGGG YOUUUUU

Pleaseee have Bernkastel...and I wonder if Shannon will revert to being Yasu/Kanon/any other split personality.

[kwando1313]

Spoiler : :

Bern wouldn't make any sense in this. xP

[Scarlet_black]

Spoiler : OMGOMGOMGOMG :

I have to confess that I'm really excited now. Someone was NOT telling us the whole truth in the Question Arc. But who I wonder. So I gathered the red.

My mentor, my friend (Phoenix Wright), had started the fire.
I (Promethus) shot the judge. I felt no remorse.
By March 12, 5:15 AM, Phoenix Wright was dead

All witnesses heard the sound of one revolver.
We found the key on the body.
The man held the master key in his pocket when they arrested him.
I never saw Miles Edgeworth leave the library
Ms. Lure died in her bedroom
Despite not remembering what happened during his first "visit", Apollo never once stopped.
In other words, he willingly went back,dragged Mr. Wright, and got him on that bench.
Apollo Justice shot Andrea Lure in a perfect locked room.


I wonder where this is going.