[M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

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smkramer313
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by smkramer313 »

Spoiler : DJJ6800 :
In the scenario of events you proposed, the wine cellar would end up being unlocked in the end (since Phoenix gave up his key to Larry and it got planted on Edgeworth). Your scenario also makes Alfred an accomplice to Phoenix by helping him with the locked room.
Alfred is not the accomplice.
Spoiler : astand :
Phoenix did not exchange the dining room key with anyone once he obtained it.
Edgeworth did not exchange the wine cellar key with anyone once he obtained it.
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DJJ6800
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by DJJ6800 »

Spoiler : :
My theory was the second one I proposed where Larry did it all on his own. As for the Alfred part, an accomplice is defined as someone who knowingly assists in the murder, right? Alfred didn’t know he was helping out in this. All he thought was happening was Phoenix just needed to get into the study.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by smkramer313 »

Spoiler : DJJ6800 :
The accomplice is a person who knowingly assists the culprit in the creation of the locked room.
Alfred would have been an accomplice because Phoenix would need to be carrying Payne's body into the study in the scenario you proposed.
astand
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by astand »

Spoiler : :
I'll swap Phoenix and Edgeworth in my theory.

Edgeworth is the culprit. Phoenix is the accomplice.

Edgeworth lets Franziska out of the study, locks the door again, Franziska hides in right bathroom, Edgeworth makes her open the door and kills her.
Edgeworth being knocked out by Larry never happened.
When Payne and Alfred were in the study and discovered Franziska was gone, Phoenix ran into the right hallway, while Edgeworth ran into the left hallway. They exchanged their keys during a brief meeting.
Phoenix entered the library, and pretended to be an unconscious Edgeworth.
As for the clue for such a disguise - well, Phoenix was seen wearing his hat all the time (even indoors, which is strange enough to be notable, and therefore can constitute a visual clue), so it's possible he prepared a haircut identical to Edgeworth and was trying to hide it. As for Edgeworth's red coat - Edgeworth could give it to Phoenix also along with the key, no need for extra clothes.
Payne found Edgeworth lying on the ground, and it's plausible he couldn't take a look at his face depending on the position (and he was distracted by Larry soon afterwards).
During all this, Edgeworth had time to barricade Klavier (or Phoenix barricaded him previously).

After this point, the events are identical to my previous theory, but with Phoenix and Edgeworth's positions switched.
And they would have the necessary keys to lock Payne in the study.


Now, about Phoenix's purple statements.
I was living it up with a grape juice stash in Larry's wine cellar I found before the party kicked off.
Him drinking some juice while he still was in the cellar doesn't contradict anything.
I didn't notice anyone enter the wine cellar while I was guarding it.
It's just a true statement.
I was guarding the door, but I must have drank too much grape juice, because I passed out.
Alright, here I'll have to interpret just a little liberally: if we take the first half of the sentence and the second half of the sentence on their own, I say there is no problem: there was indeed a period of time Phoenix was indeed guarding the door; him getting passed out also really happened, but it happened after Payne was locked in the study.
When I woke up, the key to the dining room was on my personage.
Nothing wrong with it.

In case my interpretation of Phoenix's statement is flawed, there is an alternative:
Phoenix did just guard the door, drink juice and pass out. Then while Alfred and Payne were in the study, Edgeworth ran through the central hallway to wine cellar, swapped keys, woke Phoenix up with a slap or something, gave him the coat. And after that Phoenix quickly ran to the library.
That way, there shouldn't be any problem with Phoenix's testimony at all, other than omission.
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DJJ6800
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by DJJ6800 »

Spoiler : :
Not necessarily. Perhaps when he knocked Payne out, he left him in the file room for a bit while he unlocked the door and went to retrieve Payne afterwards.
smkramer313
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by smkramer313 »

Spoiler : DJJ6800 :
Are you saying Phoenix carried Payne's body through the wine cellar? If so, Alfred does not have to be an accomplice in that instance (but I'm still not sure how Alfred could become one).
Spoiler : astand :
This is my way of saying you don't have concrete evidence to support your claim.
Knox’s 10th: It is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves as another without any clues.
astand
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by astand »

Spoiler : :
Alright, no disguises.

Edgeworth is still the culprit with Phoenix as the accomplice.
Edgeworth let Franziska out of the study, locked the door again and killed her in right bathroom after that, same as before.
Then he goes into library and pretends to be unconscious for a while.
Phoenix meantime barricades Klavier and drinks juice in the cellar. Right after Payne and Alfred leave the study after discovering Franziska's dissapearance, he unlocks the wine cellar door with his key (I assume this doesn't necessarily contradict the act of "guarding" the door), but passes out.
After Larry and Payne leave the library, Edgeworth goes to dining room, opens the study, goes to wine cellar, swaps keys and wakes Phoenix up. Phoenix goes through study to dining room and locks the door. Edgeworth locks the door on wine cellar side.
Then Edgeworth knocks Payne out after he removed the barricade. Phoenix kills Larry in left bathroom, moves Payne to wine cellar and waits.
Klavier finds Larry's body, Phoenix finds Franziska's body. After these events pass, Edgeworth opens the study, moves Payne into the study, and locks the door again.
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DJJ6800
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by DJJ6800 »

Spoiler : :
Exactly. The file room and the wine cellar are on the same side of the manor so Phoenix could easily do it.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by smkramer313 »

Spoiler : astand :
The culprit is the one who kills, and must have killed in the story. The accomplice cannot kill.
Also, you need to be more clear on how the key swap happened in your theory.
Spoiler : DJJ6800 :
You still need to explain how the key swap happened between Phoenix and Edgeworth as well as how the doors managed to end up locked.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by DJJ6800 »

Spoiler : :
Phoenix and Edgeworth probably met up during the placement of Payne’s unconscious body. That’s when the swap occurred. Then, they just locked their respective doors.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by smkramer313 »

Spoiler : DJJ6800 :
They couldn't lock the respective doors if they swapped their keys in the manner you described. The doors can only be locked from the outside with the respective key, and Alfred was standing guard in the hallway the entire time.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by DJJ6800 »

Spoiler : :
Well, I have two ideas for this. I’ll start with the simplest one. They simply went back to their own rooms with their respective keys. They lied about the swap.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by smkramer313 »

Spoiler : DJJ6800 :
Both Edgeworth and Wright said in purple truth they had different keys in the end. Only the culprit can lie about not having their key swapped.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by DJJ6800 »

Spoiler : :
Aaaand it's been so long that I forgot what the second idea I had was. Ah well. Better late than never. Let's try this idea then. Phoenix gave both keys to Edgeworth. Edgeworth locked Phoenix in the cellar and himself in the dining room. He didn't lie about having the key to the cellar but he purposefully omitted having the dining room key as well, not technically lying because he didn't say that was the only key he had.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by smkramer313 »

Spoiler : DJJ6800 :
Welp. Sorry about the long wait. I didn't mean for you to forget your second idea...

How exactly did Edgeworth manage to obtain the wine cellar key and lock the wine cellar?
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