[T] The Empty Turnabout ●

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kwando1313
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ●

Post by kwando1313 »

DWaM wrote:i did it for us, BP

i did it for us

(since all the other stuff is more or less either legit criticism which I can't really argue with or jokes that I'll ruin with responding, so)

...Still, thanks for the SoC. At least it wasn't a complete disappointment, judging by your comments. I mean, since...
Spoiler : Stuph :
It's a case that's about an underlying story that has nothing to do with the crime while 85% is trying to solve that crime.

I tried to do my best with the logic this time around - how much it was actually fair is... up for debate, admittedly (probably not the fairest, though).
Also, as far as theories go, I will eventually give out an answer to some of the still unexplained stuff when I release the doc containing how Chapter 3 was actually supposed to go down but just didn't due to several restrictions (time being a major one).

Is this the stuff that I know already? :D
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DWaM
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ●

Post by DWaM »

Actually, I think I only made and showed the doc to Gumpei when there was a chance we'd collab together so that we were on the same page of what was happening next. While writing the doc, I actually got a couple of ideas and changed the version of the confrontation you saw.

So there's still a chance you could be surprised.

...But probably not. The solution is the same, really.
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Ferdielance
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ●

Post by Ferdielance »

Spoiler : Hmm :
It's a case that's about an underlying story that has nothing to do with the crime while 85% is trying to solve that crime.
Well. There go my bets. They were made on the assumption that the story and crime were linked, rather than happening to merely be lingering around each other in the same general vicinity. I don't think that Athena's story DIRECTLY links to the crime. But it at least has a strong thematic linkage, though only a very tenuous causal one via Blackquill.
Even if the last part was clearly rushed, this case still manages to have stronger writing than Tomorrow on a few levels. Weirdly, the puzzles that were "riskiest" from the point of view of implementation (text entry) all worked satisfyingly for me, except for a synonym issue alluded to by BP and BR above. On the other hand, some of the theoretically straightforward presents were a bit dubious. Still, this was generally fun for me to play, even if there were some major hiccups.

(At least some of the fun was realizing how precisely targeted PoB turned out to be.)
Spoiler : Example :
AU Athena's character description: sarcastic, flirtatious, evil (if not perfectly so), insecure.

We have 4 for 4!

And then there's that long chain of testimonies where you have to point out non-contradictions, like "what if it wasn't his blood???" And Edgeworth keeps reactualizing the evidence...
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
Chidori__O
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ●

Post by Chidori__O »

Spyromed wrote:Why will nobody bring up Trucy's OoC-ness, am I truly alone? ;-;
You're not alone friend, but at the same time this is an alternate universe so he has an excuse :P

@DWaM
Spoiler : :
Thanks for the reply! I realize I may have been a tad harsh but I really did love your case, it was just the little things that bugged me!

Also, I remember it was about 2-3 years ago I started playing the trials on ace attorney online and I was one of the first people to play Turnabout Tommorow (though I relied heavily on the walkthrough back then). I decided to return to this site because my little sister and I were playing Ace Attorney Investigations 2 together and I remembered about this site. Playing this trial and realizing you've been making trials for strangers online for 2 years is something you should really feel good about, almost like making a video game. So thank you DWaM for making this trial/case!
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Ferdielance
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ●

Post by Ferdielance »

Welp.

Talked to someone who was told the answer.
Spoiler : bwuh :
Either I missed something huge, something that explains a lot of contrivances and coincidences, or the true answer makes very, very little sense in light of the information we have, and presumes either a suicidal defendant or a psychic murderer with perfect timing.
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
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DWaM
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ●

Post by DWaM »

@Chidori_O

I... Well, thank you very much. I'm glad you've managed to enjoy my work. I obviously won't be able to do it forever, but... if people like them, I guess I don't have an excuse to stop.

@Ferdie:
I sent you a PM that could clarify... some things.

Whether it actually does or if it's just loldwam is yet to be seen and chances are that it'll just end up with me losing to my greatest enemy known as:
Spoiler : my GREATEST FOE :
basic logic
...In which case I'll just never reveal the actual solution and pretend like I'm super smartz.
Reverie
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ●

Post by Reverie »

Removed
Last edited by Reverie on Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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AquaAce72
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ●

Post by AquaAce72 »

Really enjoyed this case, great job again DWaM!
Spoiler : Theory :
I'm thinking along the same lines as Ferdielance here in saying that Ian Arts did indeed fake his death. It seems to be implied that Arts is Mary's younger brother, which would make her motives in manipulating the crime scene much more reasonable.

Anyways, long story short, Ian Arts took the place of his butler. Arts invited Blackquill and Marston in hopes that they would want to kill him. He was willing to let these two take the fall since, from his perspective, they ruined his life by prosecuting/testifying against him in the scandal case (from this we are to assume that he wasn't actually guilty).

He masqueraded as his own butler, and purposefully sent his own butler to his unknowing demise (perhaps he knew Marston was in the study and sent his butler in there to retrieve something, for example). Since it was dark, Marston did not realize that this man was not Ian. There was a struggle over the gun, but no fingerprints were left by the butler since he was wearing gloves. Of course, Ian and Mary lied about this fact by claiming he had no gloves. Marston's shot truly did connect, and the butler died. There were no tricks involving the other wing of the mansion.

Everyone heard the shot, and rushed to the room. Arts cleaned up the blood to hamper the impeding investigation (under the guise of keeping the mansion clean, of course). The blood found on the walls of the study was not a result of the struggle, but was planted there by Arts himself earlier that day (it was said that the blood had only recently dried). Everyone except Mary took Marston downstairs and kept an eye on each other. Mary disposed of the body into the abyss.

Now, here's where things get tricky. Why would Marston and Athena lie about Mary being in the room alone? A couple of possibilities for Marston:
1. Marston was already guilty about killing someone and didn't want to drag another down with him.
2. Marston genuinely believed that Mary hid the body to protect him, and again didn't want to drag another person down with him, especially a fellow police detective who seemed to be on his side.

As for Athena, she simply wanted the satisfaction of seeing Apollo squirm and fail. She could also later take the case (and the fame that would accompany it) herself through the retrial by presenting the fact that information was concealed.

Anyways, the "him" who got arrested at the end was Arts, of course. I'm not certain how, but either Apollo or Phoenix figured out what happened and had him arrested for his crimes.
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ●

Post by drvonkitty »

i'm going to play this because i need something to break my writer's block to do so here we go
Spoiler : Chapter 1 SoC :
-Evil Athena, huh? I like it.
-And Sad!Apollo. The question is whether or not you can make it work. Apollo's character is weird, and there's no canon base for how he'd react to a sad situation etc besides DD, and we all know how that went.
-It seems like you're basing this off of DD!Apollo, for better or for worse. From what i can tell, Apollo's become a recluse and is shutting himself out from others. I suppose it's not bad, allow I feel like you've dropped his sarcasm and snark - I'm not seeing it all thus far.
-Hobo!Phoenix <3333 you characterise him perfectly i love it
-Alright, and here comes the trial...
-Sidenote: I feel like the fact that we can check the badge to get that image is somehow going to be relevant later.
-Edgeworth, huh. Hilarious opening scene, by the way.
-I love these fades
-locked room pls dwam pls
-"arrested in court again" pls make this a case
-hobo!phoenix is life
-wait I thought the victim was a recluse why was he having a party
-oooh this is good music
-is it just me or is there a lot of unused space in this mansion
-screw the rules i'm using a walkthrough on the first testimony
-"Gumshoe, is something were to happen to you, she must have a quick means of reaching me!" should be IF not IS
-"...Is because the police COULDN'T PREFORM an autopsy!" should be PERFORM not PREFORM
-When you're making text orange, the punctuation at the end is usually in white
-wait how do we even know he was murdered if they never found the body what
-i'm sorry but i literally cannot buy edgeworth right now like, how are you having a trial for murder if there isn't a body that was found
-I don't think a confession from a defendant can count as an entire basis for a murder charge, they'd still need evidence, wouldn't they?
-So did the witnesses see a body, then leave the room, and then somebody went back inside, and then removed the body? I'm having a hard time following the set-up here but it might be because I'm tired sooo
-Why did they need to leave the room to call the police...? At the moment it seems kind of contrived
-Okay, so it's been established that they checked the body and made sure he was really dead. That clears up that earlier point
-THE BODY GOT UP AND LEFT
-emotions<3
-um the transition to the sad emotional thing here was a bit quick
-what why is apollo doing that
-oh I'm Phoenix now
-this dwam-style nihilism tho
-oh i like the door-knock sound
-"...? The door?" yes apollo normally people knock on doors
-alright the jokes thus far are good
-what is that elder scrolls music dwam pls
-when i press "examine" i get apollo saying ("W" and then something about good signs what
-hello athena and athena's ~*~*villain theme*~*~
-damn i already hate her
-um I got a weird bug and it brought me back to the investigation location with athena but it might because i was fast clicking, it worked the second time
-yeah the "erasing arts" testimony seems a bit unfair to me
-"art's blood" as the solution seems painfully contrived
-"W-What if he hypothetically assume that the defendant really was that oblivious...?" should be *assumed
-HELL NO OR HELL NO
-alright, chapter one was alright
Spoiler : Chapter 2 SoC :
-i'm cry
-why does "we are not alone" sound like something nick cage would say as trailer fodder for a crappy action-sci-fi film
-idk something about apollo feels ooc but then again we haven't seen his backstory yet...
-ohhhhhhhhhhh shit plot-twist
-GEE I WONDER WHICH ONE TO PICK
-don't worry judge, you ARE one of the cool kids
-i'd say plot twist on accusing athena but it was pretty much obvious from the start that she would be involved in this trial
-im cry why this, why now
-the smith profile present is simply not fair
-PHOENIX DOESN'T NEED EYES
-wait what the hell, there was a confusing choose between y/n and i pressed yes because I had literally no idea what was being asked and apparently I just lost
-oh, I see, there was a glitch and instead of it saying "accuse mary or accuse someone else" it gave me that y/n choice..... weird
-"...lolwut?" dwam PLS
-TRUCY!!!!!!
-i'm enjoying this segment a lot, the plot twist with apollo NOT doing this to take down athena was actually really fantastic
-SIBLING FEELS DWAM PLS

-
Spoiler : Chapter 3 SoC :
-"What he's basically just said your honor is "I don't know if I'm right"." awkward statement is awkward
-"And now, with all do respect" should be DUE*
-what the hell just happened
-what
-what
-what
-what
-what
-what
-i don't understand
-what
-dwam pls
Spoiler : Final Thoughts :
I LITERALLY HAVE NO CLUE WHAT JUST HAPPENED. I'm not a very smart man but I'm woefully lost right now. So Apollo lost the trial, but apparently was totally okay with it. Apparently Blackquill comitted murder or something and then prosecuted Art's trial, and lost... and then suddenly Apollo was like "lol i know the murderer" and athena was like "what" and then it ended... um what.

The case was fun, and the trial was fun. I thought the presentation was pretty cool too. If I had any clue as to what the hell the ending was, then I'd say it was a solid case. It was fun, at least. I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me what the hell happened though. Like, I'm going to read the thread in a few seconds and that'll probably clear it all up and then I'll come and edit this but until then...

kthxbye

EDIT: I READ THE THREAD AND NOW I'M MORE CONFUSED DWAM PLS

final conclusion: i am not smart enough for this, CONFUSION/10 points, would play again and cry
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SwagmaWampyr
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ●

Post by SwagmaWampyr »

Hi, I'm just here to post this.
Don't mind me, I'll just be on my way now.


*vanishes from existing from things not DRRP2 related*


(Yes it's not 100% accurate but it's still funny as all hell in retrospect.)
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nikekut456
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ●

Post by nikekut456 »

Spoiler : :
does this case have another ending ? just want to be sure
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OrderOfTheNick
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ●

Post by OrderOfTheNick »

Spoiler : :
Okay, so I tried to point out that Marston shouldn't know where to go, since as the invitation states, he shouldn't have known about it beforehand. But that didn't work. Also, how did he climb onto the balcony?
I made Turnabout in the Two Towers, the winner of the Method in the Madness case competition.
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Mr. Onizuka
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ●

Post by Mr. Onizuka »

Hey! Just came into the forums, and player this case. Pretty good! I enjoyed it a lot (even though stretching the lack of evidence as Apollo was distressing... I'm sure that was the whole point of it). Just came here to congratulate you. Great trial, hope to play some more.
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Bad Player
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ●

Post by Bad Player »

Mr. Onizuka wrote:Great trial, hope to play some more.
Well, there are other trials (and things that aren't trials) by DWaM that you can play if you already haven't, but considering DWaM left AAO a bit ago, there proooobably won't be any more new stuff from him.
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Mr. Onizuka
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ●

Post by Mr. Onizuka »

Bad Player wrote:
Mr. Onizuka wrote:Great trial, hope to play some more.
Well, there are other trials (and things that aren't trials) by DWaM that you can play if you already haven't, but considering DWaM left AAO a bit ago, there proooobably won't be any more new stuff from him.
He left? Oh, what a shame. Guess I'll look for more of is works...

Anyway, are there any more works similar to DWaM's in terms of quality?
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