A Couple of Questions About Making Trials

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Reverie
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A Couple of Questions About Making Trials

Post by Reverie »

Wow you clicked thanks okay go.

1. People seem to split their cases every 2000-4000 frames. Does this actually have any benefit, or is this just so the author feels like they're making progress?
2. When people script trials, is there some sort of "trick" to putting it all into the editor, or do you really have to arduously type/ copy and paste it into each box?
Last edited by Reverie on Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Couple of Questions About Making Trials

Post by kwando1313 »

1) No, it's because the editor starts lagging like craaaazy after a few thousand frames. Rule of thumb is split every few thousand so you avoid massive headaches. The most I've seen in one part is like... 7000? (I think TRev was that crazy long in that part?) The point is, trials tend to break badly when more than 5k frames, hence splitting.
2) I tend to write in the editor. I don't copy and paste from a script. But then again, I don't write trials too much soooooo... xP
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Reverie
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Re: A Couple of Questions About Making Trials

Post by Reverie »

...That might explain the laggy-ness I've been having with Phase 3.
And yeah, from the total of like 1000 frames from all 3 unfinished trials I have combined, I just wrote them straght on there. In fact, I never even thought about having a script until a couple of days ago when I saw people talking about it, and then just assumed it was frowned upon to not have a script.
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Re: A Couple of Questions About Making Trials

Post by DWaM »

wow, ninja'd

rude kwando

super rude

1. Well, while the split can occur for either story reasons or practical reasons (either because it just seems like a good place to cut a part for tension or they just want to get the part out), generally speaking, it's mainly done because the editor/player has trouble handling cases with insane framecounts. Even 4000 frames is pretty much pushing it (the highest it's ever gotten is at around 7000 frames and that's just insane) as you'll experience heavy instability from the editor, plus potential lagging which your computer may not be able to handle.

While a high framecount isn't something necessary for a good case, it's generally a sign to people on here that the trial has a bit more "meat" to it. (For a first case, around 2000 or so is recommended.)

2. Unfortunately, no -- there is no efficient method. Even writing your script beforehand in word and then copy-pasting is still insanely time-consuming, as I found out. That said, I don't necessarily discourage having everything written out - everyone works differently. Some people like to have everything planned out in detail and have it down in a doc or something to always have a reference to work with, while the actual script is written in the editor. Some people like to have the script written out as well and then transfer it to the editor. And, of course, some people just ad-lib the whole thing, which... isn't really recommended.
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Re: A Couple of Questions About Making Trials

Post by Reverie »

DWaM wrote:...7000 frames and that's just insane
...Oh.
DWaM wrote:For a first case, around 2000 or so is recommended.
...I planned way too many frames for this.
DWaM wrote:Some people like to have everything planned out in detail and have it down in a doc or something to always have a reference to work with, while the actual script is written in the editor.
But this seems pretty much perfect.
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Re: A Couple of Questions About Making Trials

Post by DWaM »

Well, the 2000 is generally recommended because most first-timers would have trouble reaching the mark in the first place. So, it's more of a milestone. If you think you can write more than that - by all means!

(And, 7000 was just one part - not the whole trial.

The whole trial is way over 10k frames or so in total... and it's still not complete.

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HAHA SUBJECT MATTERS LITERALLY NOBODY WILL READ THIS

Post by Reverie »

It's just under 13,000 or something insane.
Also Empty was only like 3,000 short of this. Then again, it's finished.
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Re: A Couple of Questions About Making Trials

Post by kwando1313 »

(dwam pls, curtain is like that too)
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Re: A Couple of Questions About Making Trials

Post by Enthalpy »

My notes place Revolution at 12872 frames, with the longest part having 6966 frames.

Kwando and DWaM have written well thus far, but there is one point I want to add:

Writing is hard, especially writing even remotely AA-style. AA-style trials always have a mystery to them, and always a story. Writing either well is hard enough. Imagine writing both well and then integrating them together! It's no easy feat, and even renowned authors have had problems with that. An author just starting out will have them worse. It's recommended for this reason that designers/authors keep their first cases at around 2000 frames. Any less isn't really a case, but any more tends to be too complex for an author who hasn't yet shown they have the fundamentals.
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Re: A Couple of Questions About Making Trials

Post by Reverie »

Well, I was planning on spending a few weeks screwing around on the editor to get the hang of investigations and writing the worst comedy trial I could possible make, since trials are pretty liniar and from what I've tried, pretty easy to make, programming-wise. And that could be around 4,000~ frames, which I guess sounds more reasonable than... 10,000, which is what I've been planning on. DWaM did Tomorrow first, and that was just under 10,000, but I'm fairly sure I couldn't pull that off. I likely won't publish whatever atrocity I end up with, and instead move onto making... actual cases.
The main thing is, with what I've planned for the cases I wanna make, I can't really fit any of them into anything under about 8,000~ frames as a whole. And I don't want to waste any of the few slightly good ideas that I actually do come up with on a 2,000~ frame test run.

tl;dr, I might do a test run of 4,000~ frames to get used to the editor, and then make actual cases, I guess.
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Re: A Couple of Questions About Making Trials

Post by DWaM »

A test run of 4000 frames might as well be a case worth publishing on its own, you know...

The length of a complete case can range from 4000-10000 (if we don't count short cases, which are at around 2000 or so, that is). The actual number doesn't matter as long as the case itself is good when everything is all said and done. More often than not, the actual number only comes down to the type of writer you are. If your dialogue is fast paced and you can condense information while preserving strong emotion, it doesn't even have to reach 8000. True, it also depends on the scope of your plot and the amount of stuff that actually happens, but you should generally try to keep it... focused. (Ironic coming from the guy that made Curtain, I know)
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Re: A Couple of Questions About Making Trials

Post by Reverie »

(Hasn't played Curtian.
Doesn't play incomplete cases.
Only played TRev by accident.
But it felt finished so hey whatevs.)

I believe you mentioned somewhere that you'd started some trial before writing TTomorrow. What was that?
AndWhat'sTheFrameCountForTCurtain?

The only reason I'll likely not publish it is that I can't be asked to write properly for a test run, so it's just gonna be bad humour. And anyone (all zero of them) who knows me knows my humour is about as appealing as smashing your head against the wall in a dark room for a weekend.
Mostly it's a test run for functionality, because linear investigations are boring as hell, so I'd like to be able to make a... somewhat nonlinear one. As such, the test run is pretty much for programming purposes. I might drastically change whatever it is later, and try writing stuff properly, but that might be difficult with the setup of... """comedy."""
I may publish it. Maybe. Depends what becomes of it, whatever it'll be.
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Re: A Couple of Questions About Making Trials

Post by kwando1313 »

Curtain was... ~13k frames released. I can't remember for sure.
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Re: A Couple of Questions About Making Trials

Post by Enthalpy »

If it's a test run for programming purposes, then what are you doing writing a 4000 frame case? You can do a programming test in a quarter of that. The only reason for writing the extra 3000 frames of dialogue is to publish a complete case, which you should be releasing for feedback, so you can improve.
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Re: A Couple of Questions About Making Trials

Post by DWaM »

I started two cases before Tomorrow:

Downfall to the Turnabout (which was on PyWright - now literally unplayable with the newest version, I believe - cancelled shortly after the first half of Curtain was released).
Denouement of the Turnabout (on AAO, of which only part 1 was released - more or less abandoned. The first part had ~2500, iirc)

I believe the framecount for Curtain is somewhere around 12k at the moment and that's not counting the unreleased part (which, granted, hasn't seen much progress).

The thing is, though -- if you've managed to actually think of stuff to write to reach 4k in something you describe as "a test", you probably have something resembling a plot. And if you have that, you might as well release it (assuming it comes to an end). I mean, if it's just "a test", I really wouldn't waste time and resources on 4k on something that would never see the light of day (reasoning which pretty much led me to finally finishing up Empty). I mean, 4000 frames just like that is... no small feat by any means...
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