RP TBP: Turnabout Lightning

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Twilight Wright
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RP TBP: Turnabout Lightning

Post by Twilight Wright »

Since this is my first Ace Attorney RP, forgive me if it is TERRIBLE.

Ahem.

Edit 3/2: Ferdielance deserves credit for all of his wonderful ideas, including:

The Prosecutor's Aide be able to do anything the Prosecutor can, except call witnesses or offer penalties, and that the defense aide likewise be given the ability to make objections, etc. This will keep the game moving along steadily even when the defense or prosecutor has a slowdown in posting.
Turnabout Lightning
Darkness.

Absolute darkness.

It had been that way for an hour now, but the power company had assured us that they would get things going again pretty soon. An easy fix, they said, most definitely an easy task. Supposedly, the thunderstorm storm was the cause of everything. There had been lightning strikes all over town, they said, and three of their transformers had been struck. Once they got everything repaired, we would have our power back, lickety-split!

The guests were extremely agitated. We had just finished eating dinner, and everyone retired to the parlor for drinks and a bit of conversation, when the lights shut themselves off. I tried my best to calm everybody, but it would be hard to stay calm in a completely darkened house, so Mr. Deane and I went downstairs to find the emergency flashlights. Mr. Bradsworth went out into the hall to call the electric company, but he never returned. We're searching the mansion for him, but there's nowhere left to--

...

Dear Lord!

Wh-what is this?!

M-Mr. Bradsworth!!

Mr. Bradsworth!!!

------

Now that the plot has been established...
Roles:
(If any of this sounds unfair to you, I can change certain things so that they better suit YOU, the gamer, and provide an enjoyable experience for everyone.)

The roles that currently need to be filled are:

Defendant
Defense attorney - Evolina deLuna
Defense's aid - Dave
Prosecuting attorney - Ferdielance
Prosecutor's aide
Witness No. 1
Witness No. 2 -Trybien
Witness No. 3 - Gav
Witness No. 4
Witness No. 5 - max2953

Each player is limited to only one character; I will be playing the role of the neutral judge and the (semi-)competent Detective Gumshoe. You may play as either a canon character or a non-canon character (i.e. OCs), but not multiple copies/time travelers of the same character. If a DA, DA aide, prosecutor, or prosecutor's aide wish to cease playing, they may switch out with someone else who wishes to play the part, and I will work their absence into the story. (To be clear, you can be a different character--for instance, DA no. 1 gets wounded in some way, and another DA must take over.) For the witnesses, you may switch out with someone else--but until the end of this game, they must play as your character.
Gameplay:
Unless specified, this should be the order that the gameplay progresses in:

Investigation:
Spoiler : :
There are many ways that an investigation can be executed, so there aren't too many rules.

Rough investigation guidelines:

The defense and the prosecution must not investigate the same area/witness at the same time

Both sides may conduct investigations and find pieces of evidence, but I will only reveal the properties of the evidence to the side that needs it.

Prosecutors and defense attorneys may both converse with witnesses

Once all witnesses have been spoken to, and all pieces of evidence more-or-less found, the day will advance
Court:
Spoiler : :
The defense may speak to the defendant in the Defendant's Lobby before trial starts, through PM. PLEASE, NO SPOILERS, DEFENDANT. YOU MAY ONLY REVEAL YOUR CLUES ON THE FINAL INVESTIGATION DAY, UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED. You'll need to send the GM a copy of your discourse, as well. Once you are finished speaking, trial will begin.

The Judge will ask if the Defense and the Prosecution are ready.

The Judge will ask for the Prosecution's opening statement.

The Prosecution may call it's first witness/Detective Gumshoe and proof their testimony (The witness and the prosecution will converse through PM, and will also send the GM a copy). Testimonies should be relatively short and consise, but still make sense.

The witness will testify.

The prosecution may cross-examine the witness.

If no contradictions are found, the witness may leave the stand, after which the prosecution may call the second witness. The defense may present it's theory after each cross-examination, should it require revision.

If a contradiction is found, the defense must present evidence to prove the contradiction. Should the contradiction not exist, or if you've made a faulty present, you will be penalized. (The judge may assign penalties to both sides, should he need to.)

The prosecution may object to this evidence, but must provide a counterargument.

The witness will testify again, if the counterargument is unsatisfactory.

The defense may cross-examine the witness.

Testimony shall be provided until all contradictions are erased.

Fair warning--their will be plot twists.
Now, for specifics. (Not in any order, mind you.)

Once the five witness spots have been filled, I will choose one of you at random to be the true culprit. Through PM, we will discuss how you accomplished the crime and various other things, but it's up to you to keep this information under wraps. DO NOT REVEAL, AT ANY TIME, THAT YOU ARE THE TRUE MURDERER THROUGH PM, CHAT, OR ANY OTHER MEANS. Please. I want to make this %100 enjoyable for all participants, and anyone found cheating will be kicked out of the RP and replaced by someone else. The other four witnesses will seem suspicious up until a certain point, but once all four of you have been disproven, only the true killer will remain.

It is the responsibility of the defense attorney and the defense's aide to arrive at the truth, and you will do so through investigation days and trial days. Through evidence and testimony, you must make a deduction as to the true criminal--once you have discovered who he is, you must present decisive evidence as to his/her guilt, and you must provide an in-depth explanation as to how the murder took place. If your theory and your evidence are correct, the true culprit will suffer a breakdown while on the stand, and he/she will admit their guilt.

Now, prosecutor(s). It is your task to "gently" assist the defense--and by "gently", I mean...well, this is an explanation better left to Ferdielance:

In the canon games, it looks as though the prosecutors are trying to hinder the defense at every step, but it's not really true! In fact, they're usually helping a lot.

* Prosecutors usually point out problems with the defense arguments very quickly - something that prevents the player from going down a totally wrong path. When they don't do this in a timely manner, you get... Turnabout of Courage, arguably. And even there, Hazama is still helpful at least some of the time.

When I've really, really wanted to hinder the defense in Trial RP, I let them follow a bad theory until they tie themselves into a knot, and then let them get a series of penalties trying to escape. But I was playing a "helpful" prosecutor at the time, so I also left them a way out and encouraged them to take it. Not doing so would have been pure bullying.

* Prosecutors allow testimonies that wreck their cases to reach the stand. Now, canonically, Phoenix has to "find the holes" or press. But if a prosecutor were really playing to win, don't you think they'd just keep the witness testimonies as short as possible and erase all the holes by misdirection? Or, alternatively, coach the witness to give an insanely long testimony that hides the answer among irrelevancies? Or even not call certain witnesses at all?

Unless the defense has the right to call witnesses, the prosecution can sabotage the entire trial to their benefit.

* In canon, there is one time we're shown a prosecutor who really does play to win, and only to win. The only way he's ever beaten is by a succession of lucky breaks and a surprise witness, which we don't have.

Whew. My point is, a prosecutor can be as cruel or sneaky in-character as you want... but unless their player's OOC goal is to "do things that make for a fair, solvable, interesting case," rather than "to do whatever is needed within the letter of the rules to win," there's a serious power imbalance.


(Thank you for that, Ferdie. Without you, I'm sure this thing would have failed already, before it had even gotten off the ground.)

One final note to the prosecution. I will send the active prosecutor a list of evidence that is available to him/her before each trial day, excluding all of the evidence that the defense has found. (If you've missed something on the list, you'll recieve it as a "stroke of luck" on the police's behalf.)

Witnesses, your task is to create a time-line of your actions before and after the murder. Since you and your testimony are going to be thoroughly scrutinized by both the prosecution and the defense, it is necessary that you give very in-depth explanations of what you were doing. Once you have finished with your time-line, you MUST send a copy to me, so I can make sure that there are no major contradictions between them. If you feel the need, you may create small pieces of evidence that have come about through your actions, such as fingerprints on a cup, broken glass, etc.

Defendant, as you know, you are not guilty of being a murderer. You know that you're not guilty, but the only evidence you have to the contrary will be your memory--and the title of the actual murderer. Since you're not supposed to know his/her name, your character cannot figure out the killer's true identity, but you will be able to give the DA clues that I will provide to you.

...

I hope that's cleared up things a bit.

Though, I kinda doubt it...

So, what are you waiting for? Go ahead and sign up, today!
Last edited by Twilight Wright on Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: RP TBP: Turnabout Lightning

Post by Ferdielance »

Interesting. What happens if witness player A and B come up with alibis that are internally consistent, yet contradict each other purely by accident? Wouldn't this create a terrible red herring?
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
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Re: RP TBP: Turnabout Lightning

Post by Twilight Wright »

Ferdielance wrote:Interesting. What happens if witness player A and B come up with alibis that are internally consistent, yet contradict each other purely by accident? Wouldn't this create a terrible red herring?
:D
:)
:(

I didn't think of that.

Well, let's see.

If it's a minor contradiction, (i.e., witness A says John picked up the phone, while witness B says John picked up the phone and put it down,) I think the Judge should point it out before the cross-examinination. The witnesses will be notified, then must discuss amongst themselves "what happened." Once a conclusion is reached, the testifying witness will revise his explanation.

Now, for a large contradiction, (i.e., Witness A says "when I went to the bathroom, I saw John staring in the mirror", while Witness B says "when I went to the bathroom, I didn't see anybody") this is a serious contradiction. The person playing the Judge shall know whether or not John went to the bathroom, but evidence must be presented to prove/disprove what the witness is stating. (Like in 3-3, with Kudo and Maggey.)

Um...I think that works...
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Re: RP TBP: Turnabout Lightning

Post by Evo »

I'd like to play as defense attorney Kira Winter (from Kristoph Gavin: Ace Attorney). Do you want an app? If yes, what should it look like?
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Re: RP TBP: Turnabout Lightning

Post by lazyplague »

Hm, I'd be up for Defense aid, but I also want to work on a design for my character first, is that all right?
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Re: RP TBP: Turnabout Lightning

Post by Twilight Wright »

Evolina deLuna wrote:I'd like to play as defense attorney Kira Winter (from Kristoph Gavin: Ace Attorney). Do you want an app? If yes, what should it look like?
Yes, that'd be great! But...what do you mean by "app"?
Dave wrote:Hm, I'd be up for Defense aid, but I also want to work on a design for my character first, is that all right?
Sure! Go right ahead. We won't be starting until each role has been assigned.
Spoiler : Something irrelevant :
(Also, does anybody know if there's a place where you can introduce OC's?)
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Re: RP TBP: Turnabout Lightning

Post by lazyplague »

Applications essentially describes what the character is and who they are.

Ex:

Name:

Personality:

Backstory:

Appearance:

and anything else that you need for your RP.
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Re: RP TBP: Turnabout Lightning

Post by Twilight Wright »

Dave wrote:Applications essentially describes what the character is and who they are.

Ex:

Name:

Personality:

Backstory:

Appearance:

and anything else that you need for your RP.
Spoiler : :D :
Thank you!
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Re: RP TBP: Turnabout Lightning

Post by Ferdielance »

Disclaimer: I really, really want a forum trial RP to work out. I really do. That is why I am pointing these issues out now, so they can be discussed and resolved!

First:
Now, for a large contradiction, (i.e., Witness A says "when I went to the bathroom, I saw John staring in the mirror", while Witness B says "when I went to the bathroom, I didn't see anybody") this is a serious contradiction. The person playing the Judge shall know whether or not John went to the bathroom, but evidence must be presented to prove/disprove what the witness is stating. (Like in 3-3, with Kudo and Maggey.)
If the witnesses aren't working together to check their stories with each other and create a scenario, how do you know that evidence will even exist? You could work around this by having each witness promise to generate evidence of what they did - fingerprints, dropped items, etc. But it's quite challenging to do without some kind of big plan.

At this point, the hardest role might be "innocent witness," because:

* You don't know what really happened
* You need to make a consistent account without much context
* If you make any mistakes, you'll create a bizarre red herring
* You're effectively writing all the testimony puzzles!

An Ace Attorney testimony might look like a spontaneous set of statements, but it's really a carefully written puzzle with a well-planned solution. This is hard enough to do when you know the whole case. All of the Trial RPs I've been in that actually worked out had the trial author playing all (or most of) the witnesses.

----

Second:
(Should the prosecution figure it out, it is your task to hinder the DA in any way possible, though you know what really happened. Evidence theft, murder, and the like will not be tolerated, even if your character is reeeeeally evil. You may not give the DA hints, but you may speak to them outside of court--and if absolutely, completely necessary, give them a piece of evidence that might help.)
This is also risky game design. In the canon games, it looks as though the prosecutors are trying to hinder the defense at every step, but it's not really true! In fact, they're usually helping a lot.

* Prosecutors usually point out problems with the defense arguments very quickly - something that prevents the player from going down a totally wrong path. When they don't do this in a timely manner, you get... Turnabout of Courage, arguably. And even there, Hazama is still helpful at least some of the time.

When I've really, really wanted to hinder the defense in Trial RP, I let them follow a bad theory until they tie themselves into a knot, and then let them get a series of penalties trying to escape. But I was playing a "helpful" prosecutor at the time, so I also left them a way out and encouraged them to take it. Not doing so would have been pure bullying.

* Prosecutors allow testimonies that wreck their cases to reach the stand. Now, canonically, Phoenix has to "find the holes" or press. But if a prosecutor were really playing to win, don't you think they'd just keep the witness testimonies as short as possible and erase all the holes by misdirection? Or, alternatively, coach the witness to give an insanely long testimony that hides the answer among irrelevancies? Or even not call certain witnesses at all?

Unless the defense has the right to call witnesses, the prosecution can sabotage the entire trial to their benefit.

* In canon, there is one time we're shown a prosecutor who really does play to win, and only to win. The only way he's ever beaten is by a succession of lucky breaks and a surprise witness, which we don't have.

Whew. My point is, a prosecutor can be as cruel or sneaky in-character as you want... but unless their player's OOC goal is to "do things that make for a fair, solvable, interesting case," rather than "to do whatever is needed within the letter of the rules to win," there's a serious power imbalance.

Speaking of which...

I'm applying for prosecutor.

Prosecutor Application:

Name: Miles Edgeworth.

Personality: Miles Edgeworth's personality.

Backstory: Miles Edgeworth's backstory.

Appearance: Miles Edgeworth.
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
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Re: RP TBP: Turnabout Lightning

Post by Gav »

Witness No. 3 Application

Name: Lily Lostora (los-TOR-a)

Personality: Canny, but perky. Good at convincing people to do what she wants. Sensitive to sad topics; that is, she is averse to talk about death and anger and things like that.

Backstory: Born and raised in Los Angeles, she became the valedictorian of her high school and went on to become the CEO of an unnamed Corporation. She currently resides in a country mansion and is very, very, rich and successful. Was at the general place of the crime at the time of the crime, as all witnesses in this case are supposed to be.

Appearance: Brown cap covering the top of flowing brown hair. Brown eyes, obviously. In fact, every piece of clothing (minus her vest, which is orange) she wears to this party, from the button-down shirt to the khaki pants, is brown! They're all different shades of brown. Caucasian. Usually wears a smile. Face halfway between thin and rounded. Healthy.
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ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.
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Re: RP TBP: Turnabout Lightning

Post by Twilight Wright »

Ferdielance wrote:
Spoiler : :
Disclaimer: I really, really want a forum trial RP to work out. I really do. That is why I am. pointing these issues out now, so they can be discussed and resolved!

First:
Now, for a large contradiction, (i.e., Witness A says "when I went to the bathroom, I saw John staring in the mirror", while Witness B says "when I went to the bathroom, I didn't see anybody") this is a serious contradiction. The person playing the Judge shall know whether or not John went to the bathroom, but evidence must be presented to prove/disprove what the witness is stating. (Like in 3-3, with Kudo and Maggey.)
If the witnesses aren't working together to check their stories with each other and create a scenario, how do you know that evidence will even exist? You could work around this by having each witness promise to generate evidence of what they did - fingerprints, dropped items, etc. But it's quite challenging to do without some kind of big plan.

At this point, the hardest role might be "innocent witness," because:

* You don't know what really happened
* You need to make a consistent account without much context
* If you make any mistakes, you'll create a bizarre red herring
* You're effectively writing all the testimony puzzles!

An Ace Attorney testimony might look like a spontaneous set of statements, but it's really a carefully written puzzle with a well-planned solution. This is hard enough to do when you know the whole case. All of the Trial RPs I've been in that actually worked out had the trial author playing all (or most of) the witnesses.

----

Second:
(Should the prosecution figure it out, it is your task to hinder the DA in any way possible, though you know what really happened. Evidence theft, murder, and the like will not be tolerated, even if your character is reeeeeally evil. You may not give the DA hints, but you may speak to them outside of court--and if absolutely, completely necessary, give them a piece of evidence that might help.)
This is also risky game design. In the canon games, it looks as though the prosecutors are trying to hinder the defense at every step, but it's not really true! In fact, they're usually helping a lot.

* Prosecutors usually point out problems with the defense arguments very quickly - something that prevents the player from going down a totally wrong path. When they don't do this in a timely manner, you get... Turnabout of Courage, arguably. And even there, Hazama is still helpful at least some of the time.

When I've really, really wanted to hinder the defense in Trial RP, I let them follow a bad theory until they tie themselves into a knot, and then let them get a series of penalties trying to escape. But I was playing a "helpful" prosecutor at the time, so I also left them a way out and encouraged them to take it. Not doing so would have been pure bullying.

* Prosecutors allow testimonies that wreck their cases to reach the stand. Now, canonically, Phoenix has to "find the holes" or press. But if a prosecutor were really playing to win, don't you think they'd just keep the witness testimonies as short as possible and erase all the holes by misdirection? Or, alternatively, coach the witness to give an insanely long testimony that hides the answer among irrelevancies? Or even not call certain witnesses at all?

Unless the defense has the right to call witnesses, the prosecution can sabotage the entire trial to their benefit.

* In canon, there is one time we're shown a prosecutor who really does play to win, and only to win. The only way he's ever beaten is by a succession of lucky breaks and a surprise witness, which we don't have.

Whew. My point is, a prosecutor can be as cruel or sneaky in-character as you want... but unless their player's OOC goal is to "do things that make for a fair, solvable, interesting case," rather than "to do whatever is needed within the letter of the rules to win," there's a serious power imbalance.

Speaking of which...

I'm applying for prosecutor.

Prosecutor Application:

Name: Miles Edgeworth.

Personality: Miles Edgeworth's personality.

Backstory: Miles Edgeworth's backstory.

Appearance: Miles Edgeworth.
Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffyarfgnugen.
Damn.

Uh...

This is going to take a LOT of thinking

...

:cry:

Does anybody have any suggestions?
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Re: RP TBP: Turnabout Lightning

Post by Ferdielance »

I would suggest starting from timelines. Each witness should fill out a timeline form giving their actions down to the minute, or close to it! Then you can compare the forms. I'd also suggest coming up with a few interesting contradictions, possibly by brainstorming with the witnesses one by one, and seeing how to work those in.
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
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Re: RP TBP: Turnabout Lightning

Post by Twilight Wright »

Ferdielance wrote:I would suggest starting from timelines. Each witness should fill out a timeline form giving their actions down to the minute, or close to it! Then you can compare the forms. I'd also suggest coming up with a few interesting contradictions, possibly by brainstorming with the witnesses one by one, and seeing how to work those in.
Good idea. I think I'll edit the OP.
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Re: RP TBP: Turnabout Lightning

Post by Zohar the Shiny »

So, I'm just wondering, but what exactly is the job of a prosecutor's aide? I mean, the defense's help can give advice about witness testimonies or cross examination, but what is the equivalent of that on the prosecutor side?
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Re: RP TBP: Turnabout Lightning

Post by Twilight Wright »

Zohar the Shiny wrote:So, I'm just wondering, but what exactly is the job of a prosecutor's aide? I mean, the defense's help can give advice about witness testimonies or cross examination, but what is the equivalent of that on the prosecutor side?
Well...I don't really know. I just figured that the odds should be fair.
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