[M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

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astand
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by astand »

Spoiler : :
None of the theories I made while contemplating my defeat were correct, it seems. Oh well.

Since you did wish me "better luck next time", you sure have to make that 'next time' happen, BP! I will sharpen my skills even further and take my revenge with certainty!
Fool me once...
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by Bad Player »

Spoiler : Ferdie :
Remiel: Hmm...
Remiel: You suggest a trap in blue truth (who told you about those anyway, Mr. Wright?)
Remiel: But then back off, and instead claim murder-by-robot...
Remiel: Of course, your murder-by-robot claim only seems to hold if Detective Gumshoe did not die instantly...
Remiel: Which statement is located in the first half of your blue truths, which you disclaimed...
Remiel: But which is specially bolded, so perhaps you meant to retain that clause?
Remiel: To be honest, I am not entirely sure which parts are your theory and which aren't...
Remiel: But it doesn't really matter, because I will reject them all the same.
Remiel: Detective Gumshoe’s death was instantaneous.
Spoiler : Rune :
Remiel: ...Heh heh heh.
Remiel: If you wish to craft a theory that involves arguing you are an oblivious fool...
Remiel: I will have no objections.
Remiel: But to more directly answer your question...
Remiel: There were demonstrations in each of the rooms, which I imagine could easily distract everyone...
Remiel: It doesn't seem like the group was being that attentive, anyway.
Remiel: It took quite a while for anyone to realize Detective Gumshoe was missing, didn't it?
Spoiler : Merlin :
Remiel: Oh come now, Mr. Wright.
Remiel: Silly lies to save face are completely unnecessary.
Remiel: After all, my opinion of you can't get any lower.
Remiel: ...Then again, you are full of surprises.
Remiel: I suppose you could prove me wrong.
Remiel: Perhaps, for instance, by returning to this silly notion of yours that I am the killer...
Remiel: For each murder, the culprit was in the same room as the victim at the moment of the victim's death.
Remiel: That dismantles the first part of your theory.
Remiel: If you can find a way around that...
Remiel: I will be more than happy to pick apart the rest of it.
Spoiler : astand :
heh... it's gonna take a lot of thinking to come up with something to top this
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by DJJ6800 »

Spoiler : :
I’m free! Well then, let’s rewind time back to four minutes before my death-I mean, back to before I indicted Maya. I refuse to answer at this time! Because...there’s a contradiction in that theory. If Maya’s really a robot, then how did she get past the metal detector when going to kill Lisa?
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by Bad Player »

Spoiler : DJJ :
Remiel: ...
Remiel: You are the one who is supposed to be providing explanations.
Remiel: Not me.
Remiel: If you wish to claim logic error, you may...
Remiel: But that will serve as your answer.
Remiel: So be prepared for the consequences if you are wrong.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by DJJ6800 »

Spoiler : :
Hm. Well then, what if...wait. A lot of red truths involve “I.” Is there somebody named “I?” After all, the last red truth is “I killed everyone.”
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by Bad Player »

Spoiler : DJJ :
Remiel: I-I need... a full theory.
Remiel: Not an unhinged assertion.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by DJJ6800 »

Spoiler : :
Fair enough. “I” is the killer. “I” snuck into the robotics room and killed Gumshoe. After all, “I was the last person to leave Robotics.” They also killed Lisa in the storage room. This works because “I didn’t see anyone leave the storage hallway,” and he couldn’t see himself leave the hallway.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by Merlin1908 »

Spoiler : :
A trivial solution for that hole comes with the alternative I mentioned already:
Remiel killed Gumshoe in Robotics, then hid in Robotics until Gumshoe's body was discovered, and then snuck out after Phoenix declared he was the last to leave Robotics, while everyone was still looking at the body.
If you have any further complaints, go ahead.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by Ferdielance »

Spoiler : Continuing :
((OOC: Huh. "Mr. Wright." I wonder... if I'm playing the role of Phoenix Wright, it might be helpful to get into the character of Phoenix Wright. I'll see if that helps. At the very least, it'll make this more interesting...))

Well, when Larry was a kid, he set a trap once with a bucket on a door, and then it ended up falling on his own head... crazy schemes and Larry are a pretty classic combination, so some kind of weird trap isn't out of the question.

Which reminds me: who are we dealing with? I know Larry, I know Edgeworth, I know Maya. They aren't murderers. Now, let's turn that around:

You've said these people are "acting roles." You showed them alive afterwards. That means... you've given me clues that these aren't really Maya, Larry, and Edgeworth. And you wanted to teach me a lesson about not rushing in and trusting people when I shouldn't.

You're going to make the culprit someone I care about, to see if I can get past my emotions and think logically. So the culprit is probably NOT Lisa.

I saw in my second case that Edgeworth forged an autopsy report. What if he did the same thing here when he discovered Gumshoe?

Gumshoe DID die instantly, and he DID die with the culprit in the room, and he did die from "being stabbed with the knife." But he didn't die of the wound we thought we saw. He died when Edgeworth either pushed the knife in, or secretly stabbed him with on finding the body!

But then, how did Gumshoe get stabbed the first time, and why?

Gumshoe could have tried to fake his own death. This would have created confusion and given him a chance to smuggle out some electronics he really wanted from the building. On "recovering" from being stabbed, he could make up some story about an assailant and insist on leading the investigation and collecting evidence.

That would make Edgeworth the culprit. Do we have other clues pointing to Edgeworth? Yeah...

There's something else that was suspicious - the stolen Steel Samurai figurine. It makes no sense that Edgeworth would try to carry the figurine through the metal detector to steal it! Even if he were the kind of guy to steal things randomly, he'd just seen the metal detector go off. So why did he take it from that room?

Well, it covered up the metal detector going off for a second time, so that would make sense if he were carrying the second knife. But it also works if he actually had the figurine before he entered the room in the first place, and Larry's entry covered that up. Or why not both?

Hmm. If he didn't necessarily get the figurine in nanotech, he might have picked it up in robotics. Could it have been a robot samurai? If he put it down in the confusion when Larry got stuck, or even before then, it could have snuck into the storage area and hidden there. When Lisa Basil arrived, it slit her throat, acting as the murder weapon. It could have used the samurai spear for this. We were never told in red that her throat was slit with a knife - that was just my guess based on what I saw. But it also could have been armed with the second knife.

So Lisa Basil was murdered before everyone left Nanotech, as we're told in red.

But she didn't die instantly! She died when we came in, and Edgeworth was there at her moment of death!

The only real problem is how Edgeworth got back the Samurai so it could set off the metal detector. But wait... when I brought up that Lisa and Larry were missing, he was the one to hurry us out the door.

He could have stepped out first, grabbed the robot as it waited around the corner, and hidden it! The only problem is that it would have had to sneak past Larry, who didn't see a single person leave that corridor. That would be consistent with the red, and it's small so it could have been stealthy... but is Larry that oblivious?

Either way, let's go with this. After all of this happened and the lights went out, we ended up with everyone but me dead. But why? Why would the killer leave me alive? Why would they kill themselves? And why were they strangled, not stabbed?

Okay, what if they didn't kill themselves deliberately, but by accident? What if, in the dark, the robot finished them off - their own murder weapon did them in?

All right, I'm ready for a new blue theory!

* Gumshoe faked his death.
* Edgeworth killed him on examining the body; Edgeworth is the culprit.
* Edgeworth stole a robotic samurai from the robotics room. We've been told the place builds robots, and it makes as much sense to have a samurai robot as it does to have a perfect nanotech samurai.
* To cover up his crime, Edgeworth sent the robot to hide in the storage room. Perhaps it takes whispered voice commands - we know Blue Screens is pretty advanced.
* The robot slit Lisa's throat, murdering her (acting as murder weapon for Edgeworth), when we were in nanotech, but she did not die instantaneously. I know you've got more than one big artery or vein in there - what if only one of them was cut? Anyway, it was able to reach her throat by climbing shelves in spite of its small size.
(OOC: Phoenix doesn't know the details, maybe, but I'll add that cutting the carotid artery would be very fast death, cutting the windpipe might not be.)
* The robot returned to wait for its new owner, waiting outside nanotech behind Larry, who was watching the passage expectantly. To sneak past him, it hugged the wall or... the ceiling? This part is tricky.
* Edgeworth left the nanotech room first, and before we stepped out, he snatched up the robot and held it in his arms, setting off the alarm. This made it look like he stole the robot from nanotech.
* Lisa died just as we reached the storage room, so she died with the culprit in the room.
* The lights went out and he tried to kill the remaining witnesses. But the robot was not very good at discriminating and, after being disarmed of its knife, strangled Edgeworth in the fight when he was down.


EDIT: And while I'm at it... I'm the detective in this game, so I should know anything I saw with my own eyes, right? So how did I know that the bodies I found were strangled? Were there finger marks, or signs of a garotte? If they were just clutching their throats, they could have choked on ramen for all I know!

Take that!
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by Blackrune »

Spoiler : :
I see...
Of course you might just say that to lure me down the wrong path when I have no reason to believe any of them left the group at any point.

But now I have to wonder... if a theory is valid but established me to.... well, be kind of... an idiot, would I pass the test?
That would be unfair, though.
I mean, I'd have solved the case.
For example, it would be relatively easy for me to claim that I was the one behind the murders.
However, it would make some of my actions and thoughts in that story appear rather, well, illogical given that I speculated on the deaths and even tried to commit suicide because of them at the end.
But... that was just a tale of make-believe, right? That's what you called it. None of that were actually my own actions.
So on that note, this isn't gonna be some trick where I'll be held responsible for the crime if I argue as such... is it? It was just a 'script', after all.
The condition here was to solve the murder to prove I am not too stupid to live, so... well, just making sure there isn't any 'catch' to this that'd place me inside that Endless Night prematurely... it, it uh... should speak for my intelligence that I want to make sure, right?

(Just... just gotta stall him until I think of something decent again.)
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by Enthalpy »

Spoiler : BP :
Phoenix: (That's... a pretty tight constraint. Okay, let's focus on getting the killer into the room when Gumshoe died.)
Phoenix: (Detective Gumshoe was murdered in robotics. He...)
Phoenix: (...Just suggesting this may mean I'm too stupid to live.)
Phoenix: I want to make absolutely sure of one thing. The solution isn't zombies, right?
Phoenix: I mean, it wasn't the case that Gumshoe was dead the entire time and was being...
Phoenix: ...controlled by some kind of zombie fungus?
Phoenix: And we're not in any kind of world where the dead can still walk, and talk?
Phoenix: In that case, he could have been murdered long before anything I saw.
Phoenix: (Normally, I'd suggest channeling, but that possibility has already been ruled out.)
Phoenix: (This also might have been negated by the proclamation that he's Gumshoe...)
Phoenix: (...but I'd rather not take chances.)
[D]isordered speech is not so much injury to the lips that give it forth, as to the disproportion and incoherence of things in themselves, so negligently expressed. ~ Ben Jonson
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by Bad Player »

Spoiler : DJJ :
Remiel: W... W-Who...
Remiel: "The culprit is someone mentioned in the early part of the story."
Remiel: So... Who is it?
Spoiler : Merlin :
Remiel: Trivial indeed...
Remiel: Tell me, Mr. Wright...
Remiel: When, exactly, did I enter Robotics in order to kill Detective Gumshoe in this theory of yours?
Spoiler : Ferdie :
Remiel: Well, isn't this an exciting theory...
Remiel: Edgeworth, brazenly committing a murder of his assigned detective in front of his friends?
Remiel: You certainly are not pulling any punches while crafting your theories...
Remiel: I could unleash a salvo of red truths, utterly obliterating your ideas...
Remiel: But I prefer to act like a surgeon...
Remiel: Using a series of precise, carefully controlled cuts to reduce you to a deformed husk.
Remiel: Therefore, to defend against your theory, all I will state is...
Remiel: Phoenix Wright did not witness the moment of Detective Gumshoe’s death.
Remiel: That is all... for now, anyway.
Remiel: ...Oh, and I do actually think you have enough class to resist arguing this without my warning...
Remiel: But please do not try to argue that Detective Gumshoe was literally killed in the blink of an eye.
Spoiler : Rune :
Remiel: It is as you imagine.
Remiel: Your intelligence is gauged by your results on the test...
Remiel: Not on your actions within the story.
Remiel: Similarly, even if you accuse yourself of--or rather, admit to--the murders...
Remiel: You will not be charged with any sort of criminal penalties.
Remiel: That being said, if you do attempt to do this...
Remiel: You will be found guilty of criminal stupidity...
Remiel: Considering I explicitly told you "The detective is not the culprit."
Spoiler : Enth :
Remiel: ...
Remiel: "There are no supernatural elements in the solution."
Remiel: And even if you try to provide a scientific basis, Clarke's law will try to pull you down...
Remiel: As well as Knox's 4th.
Remiel: But even if you think those are not violated, do you have any proof to suggest that "zombie fungus" can pass muster under Knox's 8th?
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by DJJ6800 »

Spoiler : :
Who, indeed, Reimel. Or should I say, “I?” That’s right. It couldn’t be Edgeworth, Larry, Gumshoe or Lisa, as they’re dead. It couldn’t be Maya due to the logic error in the problem. It couldn’t be Phoenix as he’s the detective and I’m pretty sure BP is innocent as he’s the judge. Therefore, I’m pointing my finger at you, Reimel/I!
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by Bad Player »

Spoiler : DJJ :
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by Bad Player »

Now that the EN has been solved, I am fully unlocking it. Solution trial is under the cut.

Please note that there are major spoilers IMMEDIATELY upon opening the tag. If you have any intentions at all of solving the EN on your own, do NOT look.
Spoiler : Turnabout Daybreak :
Question Arc

Answer Arc

(DWaM Bonus Chapter - Midnight)

Finale - [Darkest]
Finale - [Before]
Finale - [Dawn]

The DWaM bonus chapter is a response to a certain... theory DWaM made. It goes between the Solution Arc and Finales, but does not affect the Finales.
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