[I][CE] Sidelined Futures ●

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CodingAnt
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[I][CE] Sidelined Futures ●

Post by CodingAnt »

<---------->
--- SIDELINED FUTURES --->
<---------->


Image

Play now!

Walkthrough

DeathByAutoscroll wrote:I managed to play through this in one continuous sitting with no breaks required, which is rare for cases of this length.
Samallama wrote:CodingAnt really popped off with the implementation of Logic Lines as a game mechanic though. This was the kind of innovation I was hoping for and you didn’t disappoint!!

Synopsis:
In an alternate Takumi-Verse, Miles Edgeworth's cushy, straight-A student life at Ivy U. is interrupted when a murder happens on campus. He takes it upon himself to investigate, battling his own demons as he comes face-to-face with the consequences of the law.

This case features a brand-new central gameplay mechanic: Logic Lines. Find connections, contradictions, and causal relationships between different parts of the scene, in a system inspired by graph theory. And if you ever get stuck, don't be afraid to ask your ever-helpful assistant for hints! There's plenty of optional dialogue to be found, too, so be sure to present anything and everything to everyone you meet.

Spoiler : Screenshots :
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Spoiler : Credits :
Sprites:
Manfriede von Karma by Sligneris
Francesca von Karma by mercurialSK
Kyla Mathers and Payson Ivy by SuperAj3
Trey Painter by DragonTrainer
Vinnie Reckor by Lind

Graphics:
Backgrounds from the 1300+ backgrounds pack
"Examine" magnifying glass from Tomodachi Life
Police badge evidence by callieG
CGs, Logic Line graphics, and various evidence by me

Music:
Temporal Rift - Final Fantasy XIII-2 OST
Snow's Theme - Final Fantasy XIII OST
Mii Homes (Afternoon) - Tomodachi Life OST
Discord - Octopath Traveler OST
Inventory - OneShot OST
Darkness Falls - Deltarune OST
At Your Back - Octopath Traveler 2 OST

Special thanks to drvonkitty and The Fury Wraith for playtesting
Made for the "Into the Takumi-Verse!" case competition hosted by Samallama and DeathByAutoscroll
Last edited by CodingAnt on Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TimeAxis
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Re: [I][CE] Sidelined Futures ●

Post by TimeAxis »

Played through this and enjoyed it. As it happens, I asked the comp judges how long it was before playing, and DBA said 3 hours and 40 minutes, which matched pretty much exactly with my playtime, and I felt like I was going through it pretty slowly too, so others may get through it quicker.

While I had to consult the walkthrough a couple times, I really liked the gameplay and characters. My thoughts have already been shared with CodingAnt, but this case is a solid recommend from me. The mechanics can be hard to wrap your head around at first, but once they click, they're pretty fun to play around with. I especially liked how the different possible orders you can do things were taken into account in random dialogue here and there.
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Re: [I][CE] Sidelined Futures ●

Post by GuardianDreamer »

This game is harder than Dark Souls................
Spoiler : :
So the main Logic Line mechanic is something that I never really felt like I understood, even by the very end of the case. As the author is aware from my DMs, I game overed several times while playing this, to the point I genuinely lost track. I even game overed on the very first testimony, before the hint system becomes available.

The intense difficulty of this fancase made it really hard for me to feel invested since I was constantly just worrying that I'd get stuck again. Even when the hint system became available, I found it very difficult to tell when a situation called for a specific type of line, usually having to run through all of them until I stumbled onto the right one (and with the cause and effect line, I had a bad habit of picking the wrong order, making me believe that I had come up with the wrong answer). Basically, contradictions could be divided into three categories for me: Ones where I had no idea what the contradiction was and how to show it, ones where I knew what the issue was but had no idea how to show it, and ones where I was able to get it without much struggle. That last category made up a very small fraction of the contradictions for me. I realize I am very biased here since my own works tend to be very easy and I have been criticized for keeping things too simple, but with this kind of new gameplay mechanic I would have preferred a much easier case as a sort of testing ground for it. That said, I am not and will not ever be a case's sole audience. I remember you playing Malleus and saying the lack of difficulty kind of made it feel off to you, and here I am doing essentially the opposite thing. People vary a lot and are complex gremlin creatures of varying tastes.

My favorite character in this was probably Manfriede. I wrote a more sympathetic AU version of Von Karma a very long time ago in a trial that was never made public for the Screw Canon comp, and it's always interesting to see the weird meme (positive connotation) character AUs people come up with when given that sort of freedom. I will say I would have liked to see Francesca and Manfriede's relationship get expanded more in the optional dialogue, I think it would have made that moment near the end where Francesca loses herself for a moment hit that much harder. That felt to me like an emotional high point, especially since it had a custom CG for it, and I would have liked to linger on it for a bit longer.

Most of the custom tracks picked for the OST were nice. I did find Payson's theme to be kind of unfitting, but that might just be me. (The Tomodachi fans are going to get me for this one.)

I liked the custom graphics a lot. They're very scrunklo blorbo charming.

I was most impressed by how well the non-linear nature of the investigation worked. I mainly write more linear stuff now, but I have attempted this sort of non-linear investigation before in very old works of mine, and it was already really difficult even while being much more limited than this (for starters, yours has many more rooms than my attempts at a non-linear investigation). Kudos for that. Must have taken roughly forever to make sure it worked right.

Also while I did ramble about the difficulty a lot, I acknowledge that for others it may "click" a lot more easily than it did for me. Maybe others will think of this as too easy, which would really give CodingAnt all the world's mixed signals. Thanks for make.
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Re: [I][CE] Sidelined Futures ●

Post by CodingAnt »

Thanks to Time and GD for playing! I'm actually really amazed at how many different kinds of reactions I'm getting to this case.
Spoiler : As an example... :
I was surprised at GD's praise for Manfriede when my playtesters were mostly neutral on him. I didn't change him much in my edits, so I wasn't prepared for this. I would've thought France or Kyla would've been the fan favourites... Which, I mean, that may still be true, I don't know.
I have a lot I could say about this case, so I might write a few of my thoughts at some point. Hopefully I don't wait too long so they evaporate like they did with A Turnabout On Rails. :random:
Either way, I'm glad the characters and the more open case structure were well received!
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Re: [I][CE] Sidelined Futures ●

Post by The Fury Wraith »

This is a pretty neat case. The new mechanic it offers is very interesting and the story is simple yet effective comfort food. Definitely worth checking out for those reasons. I would like to see the mechanic used in another case someday, perhaps one where it makes it more clear to the player what they should be doing. (I already told CodingAnt that I thought the mystery itself wasn't too difficult, but the mechanics make it feel more difficult since there is not much direction on what the player should be pointing out exactly, even with the hint system sometimes.)
Spoiler : :
Also, I thought I said in my betatest report that I liked Manfriede too... :(
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Re: [I][CE] Sidelined Futures ●

Post by applekitty »

Spoiler : I played dis game :D :
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Anyways I think during the tutorial you should specify that the 'statement' GUI at the top of the bottom screen is an intractable element of the game. Maybe I missed a line or something, but I would have never thought to click on it. I did have to rely on the guide a lot, otherwise I would've brute forced through this. I thought this game was pretty keeeewlll. I like the gameplay idea, and I'd like to see you use it again.
Spoiler : um endgame culprit spoilers :
Also I like that you used a phoenix-like sprite for the culprit... What the Scallop... Hehe...
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Re: [I][CE] Sidelined Futures ●

Post by CodingAnt »

applekitty wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 5:59 am
Spoiler : I played dis game :D :
Image

Anyways I think during the tutorial you should specify that the 'statement' GUI at the top of the bottom screen is an intractable element of the game. Maybe I missed a line or something, but I would have never thought to click on it. I did have to rely on the guide a lot, otherwise I would've brute forced through this. I thought this game was pretty keeeewlll. I like the gameplay idea, and I'd like to see you use it again.
Spoiler : um endgame culprit spoilers :
Also I like that you used a phoenix-like sprite for the culprit... What the Scallop... Hehe...
Spoiler : :
silly guy, the STUPID :tigre: STUPID :tigre: STUPID is the best part of the whiteboy
also thanks for playing :larry: a lot of people have mentioned the statement thing being obtuse so that's for sure something to fix after i'm allowed to edit again
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Re: [I][CE] Sidelined Futures ●

Post by XavierWright »

A thoroughly enjoyable case. The characters, the interactions, the gameplay mechanics, they certainly ticked a lot of boxes for my enjoyment of the whole experience, and I'd definitely recommend this case. In my opinion, this case really tackled the theme well, and it deserves a lot attention.
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Re: [I][CE] Sidelined Futures ●

Post by CodingAnt »

Sidelined Futures - Author's Notes

So, after some consideration, I've decided to write a bit about the process of making this case. Vaguely unstructured, long, and rambly, but enough to get a bit of a peek behind the curtain, if you will. Know that they contain major spoilers for the entire case, so be warned. Also, I know I said it once already, but this post is long. Like, really quite long. Mentally prepare yourself for some walls of text before unspoilering.
Spoiler : Author's notes :
The very first thing I decided for this case, before anything else, was the gameplay. This might seem fairly obvious based on some of my previous messages or how I marketed the case, but what you might not know is how long I've had the idea for Logic Lines in my head. It was originally conceived for a Ren'Py project I've had on the backburner since May of 2021. The specifics of it aren't really important and I definitely don't have the time to get into it here, but all you need to know is that it had a series of murder mysteries like Ace Attorney, and I wanted a way to differentiate the gameplay of solving those mysteries from other, similar series. So, inspired by GAA's summation examinations and YTTD's "conflict," I came up with the idea of a mechanic where you would draw lines between a bunch of different people's statements in discussion. At first there were just connections and contradictions, but later on I also added cause&effect. But as you might notice, that's quite different from the final product in SF. Yes, this mechanic evolved from a statement-focus to a scene-focus, with evidence and statements on the... ahem. Sidelines. With this scene-focus, an all-investigation case was decided on. This was mostly a result of technical limitation. I didn't know how to have that many statements on screen at once while still fitting into the 256x192 pixel DS screen. You might've noticed that in the Logic Line Deduction near the end of the case, I was only able to fit four relevant pieces of information on the bottom screen. That is literally the maximum amount that can physically fit in that space without some lines overlapping some information. And if I wanted as many statements as I imagined for the Ren'Py rendition of the mechanic, while also somehow making it clear which statement was which... It would be quite difficult, to say the least. Of course it would be easy enough to do functionally the same thing by storing statements to use against other statements, but the whole idea behind Logic Lines is having those physical lines on the screen as visual shorthand for deductions, which that would remove. So instead I pivoted, and made the Logic Lines you all know. Honestly, I like how it turned out, and might implement it back into that Ren'Py project. Funny how things work out...

You may be wondering how I programmed said Logic Lines. I didn't. Well, that's not true, obviously I programmed it or you wouldn't have played it, but the idea I'm trying to get across is programming was very haphazard at first. In the first rebuttal, when I was still getting my bearings, I use a totally different, unrefined system compared to what I use everywhere else. As for that everywhere else, there are 5 main variables that matter. CN, CT, CE, EA and EB. The first three I could've simplified into a single variable, but didn't, because frankly I didn't know what I was doing at first, but hey, it stuck. As you might be able to guess, CN, CT, and CE refer to connection, contradiction, and cause&effect. Their value is set to 1 or 0 depending on which line you use. EA and EB are the first and second "nodes" of the line, set to various values depending on what that "node" is, from something at the scene (say, the box in Kyla's rebuttal) to the statement button. Depending on the value of these five variables after both nodes are clicked on, it redirects to the right frame to draw the line, and if you click confirm those variables are also used to determine whether your answer was right. Clear sets all those variables to zero and erases every possible line, as does back. The rest, I think, is easy enough to figure out. It's a bit crude, but it works. It is VERY tedious, though, both to code and make assets for. Oh well.

Another interesting thing about this case is its open-endedness. The biggest example of this of course being that you can tackle Ivy's and Kyla's testimonies in either order. Surprisingly, this didn't actually take that much effort to pull off besides a bit of variable shenanigans. As some of you noticed, there is some special dialogue depending on your order, but not much. I decided on this open-endedness mainly just because I could, and I thought it would be cool. I had to work the narrative around this fact a little bit, but by just having Kyla's testimony mainly relate to the buried treasure subplot, it wasn't too bad.

Enough about gameplay. Let's talk about that story. The first thing I came up with was actually the intro cutscene. I decided that graph theory would be an apt comparison to get the player used to logic lines, and then I came up with the idea that the whole thing was a lecture, and the whole university theme built itself from there. Ultimately I'm glad that happened, because it meant that not only did this case have altered canon characters, it also had an altered canon setting, and this Ivy U. I think takes on a whole different life than its canon counterpart. It's small and terribly built, for one. And... there's no upsides. Amazing! But that's obviously the point.

As for the actual murder plot itself, the pulley system was decided fairly early on, and I also wanted Kyla and Reckor to be getting up to something sneaky in the background, which I eventually tied back into the main murder plot. What took the longest to decide was pretty much everything you deduce in Trey's rebuttal. I wanted there to be some kind of trick to how he escaped the campus building without being seen, and I considered a bunch of different options, but ultimately went with the fairly simple solution of the cushions. I almost went with a trampoline instead at one point, but... I also wanted to tie back into the treasure, and it wouldn't make sense for Ivy U.'s founder to have something modern like that. Other than that, though, strangely, I don't have much to talk about with regards to story. Probably because it gets overshadowed so much by the characters, which were the real meat and potatoes of this case in my opinion.

The story of this case is inseparable from the three altered canon characters: Miles, Manfriede, and France. Though the first thing I came up with was the intro cutscene, the second thing I came up with was that I wanted wildly different dynamics between the von Karmas, which in my mind includes Miles. That's honestly the biggest thing about this case. Manfriede, mellowed down from being a teacher, connects much easier with Miles and has a more wholesome mentor-student relationship with him than in canon. The same is also true of Manfriede and France, although you don't get to see much of it on-screen, and France still got a little bit of the cranky perfectionist Manfriede we know. Hot tip, if you haven't, present Manfriede's profile to France in Miles' dorm. Neither Miles nor France are groomed to perfection like in canon, and that allows for Miles to be a bit more awkward and France to show her emotions. Though this was a Takumi-Verse and not a butterfly effect, I still wanted a reason for all the character changes I made to those three, and in a way most of it can be traced back to Manfriede becoming a teacher. Miles and France also have what is probably the best dynamic in the case. Fury compared it to a buddy cop-type relationship, which I think is very much true at parts, but I also think they bring out each other's best selves. Miles calms France down when necessary and teaches her (ironically) the value of teaching, while France helps Miles build confidence and become a real investigator. Their arcs are inherently intertwined, and neither would work without the other. I have a lot more thoughts about the individual characters in this case, which I will list now:

Miles, as Samallama pointed out, is a fairly standard AA protagonist. Socially awkward yet snarky, I think he retains a lot of the classic Edgeworth charm that makes him so good in canon, though without any of the actual charisma. He has no rizz and he's not supposed to. He has trouble saying no to people, or really speaking his mind much at all, bar a few important moments like volunteering to investigate Manfriede's death. This can become a bit of a problem when, say, France's hotheadedness rears its ugly mug and she does something she's not supposed to, like punch Trey in the face. Because of this, he forgives her, even though what she just did is a serious offense and she knows it. Some of this anxiousness manifests in his arc with learning to live with the consequences of the law. For someone new to detection, I like this arc as a setup for a Miles we can presume becomes much more competent after the events of the case. Miles definitely isn't the most flashy character in the cast, but he has his good moments and he enables a lot of excellent dynamics, like him and France, and him and Kyla.

France is my favourite character in the case. Obviously her dynamic with Miles is peak, but I also really like a lot of the comedy she enables by just being her dramatically serious self. "You know what you get for ending an innocent man's life? Karma." Is peak cheesiness (to paraphrase drvonkitty) and she relishes every syllable she says of it. I get theatre kid vibes from her. But the comedy takes a backseat to her character arc. She begins the story redirecting her sadness and anger at her father's death towards catching the killer, with some of that leaking out occasionally, until she finally comes face-to-face with Trey. The anticipation swells within her, building and building until he reveals his motive for murder, which she deems as pathetic and all the rage spills out of her all at once. So she punches him. This is the emotional peak of the story but also clearly France's lowest point. And she realises this, so she decides to give up her badge. A detective shouldn't be so emotionally volatile. It's dangerous. But what she didn't realise is what she's built up to that point. Albeit unintentionally, she's tutored Miles into a brand new, more confident person. So she doesn't give up detection entirely, instead she takes up her father's mantle of teacher to Miles.

Manfriede is a subversion of the canon Manfred. While Manfred is mean and vindictive, Manfriede is kind and helpful. It may seem like it doesn't go much deeper than that, but what I really like about Manfriede isn't what's different, it's what's the same. He's still a rampant perfectionist, and holds himself and his pupils to the highest possible standards. The only thing is, he's realised that some standards are impossible to achieve, and thus he seeks perfection on an individual level rather than the absolute peak performance. Most of this is said simply in the first library scene, but I still think it's effective. Effective enough that other students like Kyla and even Trey truly grieve his passing.

Kyla. What can I say about haha funny lesbian allegations girl. She's awesome, that should be immediately obvious the moment you meet her. She definitely got the best and most consistently good optional present and examine conversations out of everyone, which is probably because her personality is just so strong. She somehow manages to out-presence France of all people, which is a feat and a half. She's not all goofs and gaffes, though, as being forced to betray Miles truly cut her deeply. Luckily she's able to mend that, and all is well. But... let's be real. She's mostly just goofs and gaffes.

Trey is the character most closely tied to the themes of the story, which is why I've avoided talking about those until this point. His crippling paranoia about the future led him to inadvertently murder Manfriede and ruin everything for himself. He couldn't accept that he'd have to rely on luck to get anywhere in basketball, and succeeding academically didn't exactly appeal to him either, but by killing him he locked himself out of both of those options. But, as Reckor says, he doesn't need a perfect future, he just needs a future. So what if it happens to be a, eh... sidelined future... I'm done. I was inspired by my own life with this one. I often tell myself I need to, say, get my book published before a certain age or it's not impressive. Or I need to have perfect grades because that's what I've had for so long so it would suck to ruin that streak. And I wanted to channel some of that perfectionist struggle into this case. I do try to tell myself the same things Reckor tells Trey in the post-credits scene. Does it work? Eh... But that's not the point. In a way, Trey can be considered a foil to both Manfriede and France. Trey and Manfriede are both perfectionists, but one gets crippling anxiety from that ("What if my life doesn't turn out perfectly") and one of them uses it to help himself and others improve. Trey and France are both extremely volatile, but in very different ways. One is very self-deprecating in that volatility ("Stupid! I'm so stupid!") while the other directs it outward. All in all, I relate very strongly to Trey (aside from jock sports stuff ofc) and I like him a lot for that. In theory he's my second favourite, but Kyla is just too good so he's actually my third.

Ivy isn't really all that important. She needs to be here, of course, to witness the weird stuff going on in the library, but she's not all that impactful to the story otherwise. I think she's pretty funny at times, but that's about it. I'm at least glad I was able to tie her in to the themes somehow, with that post-credits scene.

Reckor is an interesting one. They're not the best morally, asking students to steal for them and just being generally unscrupulous, but I do love me some selfish pricks every now and then. Their strongest dynamics are technically with Kyla and Trey, but the former isn't explored much as the two aren't really on-screen together at all, and the latter... Well, the latter's actually pretty good, but Trey and Reckor aren't really two characters you'd expect to have a dynamic at all. Before the post-credits scene, they barely know each other. Overall I think they have some good character moments and some good comedic moments. Their legally-mandated-AA-witness-gimmick required a fair bit of research though...

Presentation-wise, I'm quite happy with what I pulled off here. There's a lot of obvious improvements compared to my last case, like word wrapping, shakes and fades, etc., but my favourite part has to be the CGs. I was actually planning on making a few more, but I ran out of time and ultimately I don't think they would've been that necessary anyway. I don't draw very often, so getting the opportunity to do so in this case was a blast. I tried some new things, and not all of it worked out, but all-in-all I think they're the easiest thing I can point to and go "This. This is what I'm really proud of." Music choices generally just came from my favourite games. I may have a small hyperfixation on the FF XIII trilogy and/or Octopath Traveler. Maybe slightly. But also, Square Enix just make amazing songs so it's no wonder I went for them. Also, fun fact, I started a new Tomodachi Life island during the comp that now has 70 islanders. Playing on that save file is how I discovered what I would later use as Ivy's theme.

This case, as I've said before, is a proof-of-concept. Mainly for logic lines, but also for my mystery projects as a whole. I think learning that I'm able to make something like this in 3 months was very helpful for me to schedule any potential future stuff. I don't plan on using Logic Lines in an AAO case again, at least for a little while. I really appreciate everyone who wanted to see more! But it's just really taxing and I'd love to just be able to work on a normal case next time. I need some downtime after something of this magnitude. But overall I had a ton of fun working on this and it's amazing seeing all the positive reactions to this case! There are a couple smaller edits I'll release sometime after the comp deadline, but after that I think I'll lay this project to rest and work on the rest. It's been a blast!
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Re: [I][CE] Sidelined Futures ●

Post by drvonkitty »

i playtested this & really enjoyed it! congrats on the release.
Spoiler : brief thoughts :
the narrative and characters are where this case shines, with kyla and fran as my personal highlights. and, the investigation gameplay made me wish making a full AAI fangame was more feasible, because i loved the feeling of snooping around the scene and questioning witnesses! my biggest critique is largely similar to what GD said earlier about the new mechanic, so i won't go into too much detail. generally, i found the logic lines to be unintuitive, with an unclear distinction between the options that led me to get stuck a few times, worsened by some already shaky case logic and a couple hard-to-follow leaps, at least in the version i played. if codingant planned on making this a series, i would suggest revamping that mechanic entirely, but it is serviceable as is, especially in the context of the takumiverse theme. honestly though, i probably would've preferred it if the case had more standard AAI gameplay, at least as much as possible within the confines of AAO. that being said, as with most of AA for me, i'm much more interested in the story and tend to use walkthroughs frequently anyway, and this case definitely has an entertaining story that kept me going.

confession: i developed a crackpot theory while playing based on the joke dialogue that kyla was literally some kind of ancient eldritch being & the real culprit, so i was a little disappointed when the killer turned out to be chad with nothing groundbreaking in terms of motivation, since i immediately pegged him as "yeah he's probably the culprit". but, it all ties up neatly in the end, and the confrontation and mystery solution was well-presented, even if a bit hazy on the logic. but the kyla eldritch being theory is canon in my heart
not sure what changes you've made since my review, so i'll have to check it out sometime and see if i have any additional thoughts. but, overall, this gets the drvonkitty seal of approval!
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Re: [I][CE] Sidelined Futures ●

Post by risefromtheashes »

(Fira, she/they/it)

Damn it I accidentally Alt+F4'd while writing my first copy of this review.

Anyway, Sidelined Futures is Danganronpa. I will not elaborate. Play for yourself.
(Important clarification: Sidelined Futures is good. Play it.)

Actual review (with spoilers) below. Warning, it's long, but nowhere near as long as our review of A Web of Turnabouts, so be grateful:
Spoiler : Review (SPOILERS) :
Alright, I have to apologize in advance if this review comes off as mostly negative -- this is mostly because I feel like most of the things I like have been said by others, so I might not have as much to say about those things, but just know I liked this case and it's very impressive how much you got done, especially at your age. (And *after* doing Turnabout on Rails.)

PRESENTATION/GAMEPLAY:
- I liked your choices in custom music. Props to the FF music. (I personally am a lot more familiar with FF1-10, and the only songs I know from XIII off the top of my head are The Promise and Fabula Nova Crystallis, but I liked the themes you used.) I agree with GD that the Tomodachi Life theme felt weird, but I'll specifically stipulate that it's not because it doesn't match Payson Ivy as a character, but because Payson Ivy as a character was out of place. I'll go into this later. Otherwise, well done there.
- Your custom art was great, especially the evidence icons and custom foregrounds for logic line deductions. The only issue I had there was that that one CG of Francesca punching Trey had issues with perspective that made her arm look SUPER long (if you've played Danganronpa 2 [insert smil emoji], think that one CG of Hiyoko putting on her kimono). I presume this is the CG that DBA had an issue with in her review -- or something like that, if I'm remembering correctly -- but it's otherwise alright, so honestly, I'm just happy I got to giggle at the idea of titan-arm Francesca. (/gen)
- I personally also found the logic lines mechanic to be unintuitive like a couple of other people did. It's not that the logical conclusions the case made didn't make sense, but rather that it was confusing how I was supposed to get to those conclusions. I ended up just using the walkthrough for the whole case because I was already somewhat overwhelmed when I played, so I didn't have the brainpower to try and figure out how I was supposed to use each type of line. I can think of a couple specific issues: One, and maybe this was me skimming, but I felt like there wasn't enough clarity or explanation in general with the system, and some of the phrasing was a bit broad for the different types of lines in their evidence icons. This just made the whole thing a bit confusing in general. Two, I didn't like that you could sometimes make a deduction at any statement of a testimony, because subconsciously, that threw me off wildly. I would've personally been much happier if you could make "general" deductions during the co-counsel dialogue after some sort of prompt like "is there something to deduce that the testimony isn't talking about?". Otherwise, though, I can tell this mechanic was thought out well, and I think that it just needs a little bit of polishing and that one tweak with the general deductions.

CHARACTERS:
- I liked Manfriede. I appreciated the spin on canon Manfred's perfectionism, with this version of him turning to using it for good (similar to Franziska going from "perfect case" to "perfect truth" in canon AA, but with a little bit more of a realistic view). I wish he had a little bit more screentime (before he died, or in flashbacks/Talk options about him afterwards), because he was pretty cool. I honestly wish that the dialogue of Miles presenting his profile to France was mandatory somehow.
- France is good, and she was pretty motivating to be around during the investigation, especially in the scene in Miles's dorm. I just generally found her confidence to be a turn-on that kept me wanting to continue the case (or maybe this is just me being a bit sapphic, but either way it means she's cool). My main issue with her is that she really turned around quickly with letting Miles help her investigate, and her decision to quit the force and start a private firm was sudden as well -- but for clarity, this isn't an issue with her making those decisions quickly in universe, it's with how they were written/paced. I'll go into this later, as it's indicative of a bigger issue I had with the case.
- The witnesses...
I found Trey to be a bit bland. I appreciate you going for him having a little bit of an inferiority complex comparing himself to Edgeworth, and I know he's kind of a stressy jock that yells sometimes, but I don't think that gave him enough personality to really sympathize with him or enjoy him much. He was also kind of an obvious culprit. (The cis White boy did it!!!!! this is a joke, it's because he had nothing relevant to say for most of the investigation but clearly was in the case for a reason) And, unfortunately, even though I understand people can get triggered in very irrational ways, when I saw his flashback conversation with Manfriede, it really didn't seem like stabbing made sense as a reaction... which is a hell of a sentence.
Kyla was nice, and also a terrible liar. (This is fine. Oh, god, Danganronpa has a terrible liar who says "this is fine" in one of their voice lines.) One nitpick I have with her is that when you used her crying sprite for her testimony, it caused a lot of weird transitions between that frame and the ones next to it (whether directly going to the next statement, pressing the current one, or presenting the wrong evidence). She would go from sobbing to making a silly remark and it broke my immersion a bit. Another more serious issue I had with her (and Miles) is that her breaking into Miles's dorm really was not addressed with the kind of seriousness it would entail in my opinion -- not that her motives weren't understandable, but she had to lockpick his door, sneak in while he was sleeping, and steal something two feet away from his sleeping body. That is a severe violation of trust, and also one that had an easier resolution (just asking would've at least helped, even if he really was using the book to look for the treasure). So I thought Miles forgiving her (and Reckor) was out of place and not a great look. Otherwise, though, I enjoyed her presence and she makes me happy. (This is what I meant about mostly seeming negative, by the way -- I just have more thoughts on the one or two issues I do have with each part of the case that's otherwise fine.)
Miles was good. I don't think I have any particular issues with him. I don't think I loved him, but he was good and it was cool to see him as a student. I liked his moral dilemma about law being really consequential to other people's lives.
Payson Ivy is a character I have one major issue with, but also kind of love the most in a way. The issue was her selfie gag. I really didn't like it for the sole reason that it's very unprofessional for any authority figure to take candid pictures of people, and that was kind of brushed off as a "tee hee she's silly" when France actively dislikes it, and Ivy knows that but keeps doing it anyway. It's not that people/characters can't have bad senses of boundaries or be unprofessional -- but I felt that the narrative treated it more lightly than it actually should be, and the fact that she transitioned so quickly between "tee hee surprise selfie" and "let's do serious theorizing" made it also seem unnatural and weird. But I recognize that this was supposed to be a throwaway gag to use Maycee's sprites, and I did take a liking to Ivy throughout her testimony. She's clearly observant and smart, and I liked how she kind of took the reins of her testimony and she started asking Miles for proof of his theories instead of France, as well as coming up with some pretty competent deductions of her own (and keeping up with Miles and France's conclusions) despite the Danganronpa-ness of the whole pulley mechanism. I like intelligent women. Payson ended up making me very happy when I was finished with her testimony, and I liked the callbacks to her being one of the last descendants of the original dean and being important to Ivy U as a whole. Aside from the selfie mishap, it felt like she was treated with the respect she deserves.
Vinnie Reckor is cool. I like them. I already talked about how the breaking in thing was really extreme and shouldn't have been forgiven so easily, so I won't go through it again. I still love Reckor (an enby legend), and I also appreciate how they're sort of an overlooked figure as a professor, being brushed off for having sort of a sloppy world history class but actually being a good person and teacher, at least for someone. Also loved their scene at the end with Trey. They make me happy.
- Overall, favorite characters are Vinnie and Ivy. It's funny how I like them more than France and Manfriede despite having more issues with them, but I think their positives just appealed to me more. But France and Manfriede are definitely tied for third.

STORY:
- The story was pretty good. It seemed like it focused more on its investigation/deduction elements for the most part -- which I'm not sure is intentional, as I got that impression because a lot of the character dialogue was pretty short, but the deduction segments were pretty long. That's not necessarily a problem, though. I felt the characters were about 70% hit and 30% miss, which is a net positive, so take that as a win. I liked the theme of focusing on one's future (Miles not knowing what to pursue and deciding he wants to be a detective, France wanting to ensure justice is served by starting a PI firm, Trey having all sorts of issues, and Kyla needing guidance from someone like Reckor), and the focus on the consequences of this whole situation (Trey's future being screwed, France losing her path as a police detective, Manfriede being dead [duh], Miles's path changing entirely).
- My main issue with the story (I mentioned this earlier) is pacing. As I said, a lot of the character dialogue was pretty short, and I don't mind there being more of a focus on mechanics than story with this case, but given what you did try to accomplish with the story, I felt that more padding would've gone a long way. Some foreshadowing for the treasure (which didn't come up at all until midway through the case, and wasn't hinted at at all), something connecting Trey to the case other than "he lied for no reason so he must be the culprit", some more padding between and within scenes so that the player has time to "sit in the room" with each new discovery/character moment.

OVERALL:
- Good case. I enjoyed playing it. It made me smile.
- Remarkably consistent with how most elements are overall solid but with just one bump in the road that needs smoothing out. (It really is uncanny -- almost every character is good aside from one major thing that I didn't like about them; I liked the plot overall except for its pacing being rocky; I liked all of the graphics but my immersion was broken by Francescarm.)
- Case needs more padding overall. Also needs more Danganronpa music.
- STUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPID!!!!!
Hope you're having a good night, and hope this review meets you in high spirits. :)
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Re: [I][CE] Sidelined Futures ●

Post by CodingAnt »

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Responses in red.
drvonkitty wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:06 am i playtested this & really enjoyed it! congrats on the release.
Spoiler : brief thoughts :
the narrative and characters are where this case shines, with kyla and fran as my personal highlights. and, the investigation gameplay made me wish making a full AAI fangame was more feasible, because i loved the feeling of snooping around the scene and questioning witnesses! my biggest critique is largely similar to what GD said earlier about the new mechanic, so i won't go into too much detail. generally, i found the logic lines to be unintuitive, with an unclear distinction between the options that led me to get stuck a few times, worsened by some already shaky case logic and a couple hard-to-follow leaps, at least in the version i played. if codingant planned on making this a series, i would suggest revamping that mechanic entirely, but it is serviceable as is, especially in the context of the takumiverse theme. honestly though, i probably would've preferred it if the case had more standard AAI gameplay, at least as much as possible within the confines of AAO. that being said, as with most of AA for me, i'm much more interested in the story and tend to use walkthroughs frequently anyway, and this case definitely has an entertaining story that kept me going.

confession: i developed a crackpot theory while playing based on the joke dialogue that kyla was literally some kind of ancient eldritch being & the real culprit, so i was a little disappointed when the killer turned out to be chad with nothing groundbreaking in terms of motivation, since i immediately pegged him as "yeah he's probably the culprit". but, it all ties up neatly in the end, and the confrontation and mystery solution was well-presented, even if a bit hazy on the logic. but the kyla eldritch being theory is canon in my heart
Seeing the Kyla eldritch being theory unfold was my favourite part of reading your SoC, lol. Anyway, I think Trey's motive has ultimately been improved by the edits, perhaps not to a perfect degree (as Fira still found some issue with it) but better than it was before at least.
not sure what changes you've made since my review, so i'll have to check it out sometime and see if i have any additional thoughts. but, overall, this gets the drvonkitty seal of approval!
Thanks for playtesting! This case wouldn't have been possible without your feedback :D
risefromtheashes wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 8:44 am (Fira, she/they/it)

Damn it I accidentally Alt+F4'd while writing my first copy of this review.

Anyway, Sidelined Futures is Danganronpa. I will not elaborate. Play for yourself.
(Important clarification: Sidelined Futures is good. Play it.)
(Important clarification: Sidelined Futures is NOT Danganronpa. I have no idea what you're talking about.)

Actual review (with spoilers) below. Warning, it's long, but nowhere near as long as our review of A Web of Turnabouts, so be grateful:
Spoiler : Review (SPOILERS) :
Alright, I have to apologize in advance if this review comes off as mostly negative -- this is mostly because I feel like most of the things I like have been said by others, so I might not have as much to say about those things, but just know I liked this case and it's very impressive how much you got done, especially at your age. (And *after* doing Turnabout on Rails.)

PRESENTATION/GAMEPLAY:
- I liked your choices in custom music. Props to the FF music. (I personally am a lot more familiar with FF1-10, and the only songs I know from XIII off the top of my head are The Promise and Fabula Nova Crystallis, but I liked the themes you used.) I agree with GD that the Tomodachi Life theme felt weird, but I'll specifically stipulate that it's not because it doesn't match Payson Ivy as a character, but because Payson Ivy as a character was out of place. I'll go into this later. Otherwise, well done there.
The XIII trilogy is goated. I need to find an excuse to use more of its OST in other cases...
- Your custom art was great, especially the evidence icons and custom foregrounds for logic line deductions. The only issue I had there was that that one CG of Francesca punching Trey had issues with perspective that made her arm look SUPER long (if you've played Danganronpa 2 [insert smil emoji], think that one CG of Hiyoko putting on her kimono). I presume this is the CG that DBA had an issue with in her review -- or something like that, if I'm remembering correctly -- but it's otherwise alright, so honestly, I'm just happy I got to giggle at the idea of titan-arm Francesca. (/gen)
- I personally also found the logic lines mechanic to be unintuitive like a couple of other people did. It's not that the logical conclusions the case made didn't make sense, but rather that it was confusing how I was supposed to get to those conclusions. I ended up just using the walkthrough for the whole case because I was already somewhat overwhelmed when I played, so I didn't have the brainpower to try and figure out how I was supposed to use each type of line. I can think of a couple specific issues: One, and maybe this was me skimming, but I felt like there wasn't enough clarity or explanation in general with the system, and some of the phrasing was a bit broad for the different types of lines in their evidence icons. This just made the whole thing a bit confusing in general. Two, I didn't like that you could sometimes make a deduction at any statement of a testimony, because subconsciously, that threw me off wildly. I would've personally been much happier if you could make "general" deductions during the co-counsel dialogue after some sort of prompt like "is there something to deduce that the testimony isn't talking about?". Otherwise, though, I can tell this mechanic was thought out well, and I think that it just needs a little bit of polishing and that one tweak with the general deductions.
Logic Lines have proven to be very hit or miss with people, but somehow, in spite of how many people found issue with them, I have surprisingly little to say in response. Still, it would be very silly not to say anything at all, so here's my two cents. I think I've said somewhere before (maybe in an SoC thread) that Logic Lines could've used more time to slowly introduce its mechanics so you could get the hang of it easier. In a full-length game this would be no problem, but in a single case, especially one with open-world elements like this one, everything needs to be introduced before a certain point and it can get a bit hectic because of that. The tutorial the case does have is pretty much the best compromise I can have while still preserving the open-world elements of the case. I think it's telling that the logic itself worked for you, so it's seemingly just an issue with gameplay, and an issue I think could be solved with more time to get used to it.

CHARACTERS:
- I liked Manfriede. I appreciated the spin on canon Manfred's perfectionism, with this version of him turning to using it for good (similar to Franziska going from "perfect case" to "perfect truth" in canon AA, but with a little bit more of a realistic view). I wish he had a little bit more screentime (before he died, or in flashbacks/Talk options about him afterwards), because he was pretty cool. I honestly wish that the dialogue of Miles presenting his profile to France was mandatory somehow.
- France is good, and she was pretty motivating to be around during the investigation, especially in the scene in Miles's dorm. I just generally found her confidence to be a turn-on that kept me wanting to continue the case (or maybe this is just me being a bit sapphic, but either way it means she's cool). My main issue with her is that she really turned around quickly with letting Miles help her investigate, and her decision to quit the force and start a private firm was sudden as well -- but for clarity, this isn't an issue with her making those decisions quickly in universe, it's with how they were written/paced. I'll go into this later, as it's indicative of a bigger issue I had with the case.
- The witnesses...
I found Trey to be a bit bland. I appreciate you going for him having a little bit of an inferiority complex comparing himself to Edgeworth, and I know he's kind of a stressy jock that yells sometimes, but I don't think that gave him enough personality to really sympathize with him or enjoy him much. He was also kind of an obvious culprit. (The cis White boy did it!!!!! this is a joke, it's because he had nothing relevant to say for most of the investigation but clearly was in the case for a reason) And, unfortunately, even though I understand people can get triggered in very irrational ways, when I saw his flashback conversation with Manfriede, it really didn't seem like stabbing made sense as a reaction... which is a hell of a sentence.
Kyla was nice, and also a terrible liar. (This is fine. Oh, god, Danganronpa has a terrible liar who says "this is fine" in one of their voice lines.) One nitpick I have with her is that when you used her crying sprite for her testimony, it caused a lot of weird transitions between that frame and the ones next to it (whether directly going to the next statement, pressing the current one, or presenting the wrong evidence). She would go from sobbing to making a silly remark and it broke my immersion a bit. Another more serious issue I had with her (and Miles) is that her breaking into Miles's dorm really was not addressed with the kind of seriousness it would entail in my opinion -- not that her motives weren't understandable, but she had to lockpick his door, sneak in while he was sleeping, and steal something two feet away from his sleeping body. That is a severe violation of trust, and also one that had an easier resolution (just asking would've at least helped, even if he really was using the book to look for the treasure). So I thought Miles forgiving her (and Reckor) was out of place and not a great look. Otherwise, though, I enjoyed her presence and she makes me happy. (This is what I meant about mostly seeming negative, by the way -- I just have more thoughts on the one or two issues I do have with each part of the case that's otherwise fine.)
For the crying sprite thing, in many (but not all) of those scenes I wrote it as if she's crying ironically. Like, she's not actually that upset, she just thinks it's funny to overreact for no reason. This may not have come across through text. As for the break-in not being treated with the seriousness it deserves, I can see that. Admittedly, I have a high tolerance for these kinds of violations of trust and boundaries, and it's sometimes hard to tell where to draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable. (For example, the moment where France punches Trey originally had less consequences for France and was treated less seriously by the characters, but thankfully drvonkitty set me straight there.) At the very least I think it's in-character for this version of Miles to forgive people, especially his friends, very quickly, but if this was an issue for you then that's valid. That goes for other things you mention too, like Ivy's selfie gimmick.
Miles was good. I don't think I have any particular issues with him. I don't think I loved him, but he was good and it was cool to see him as a student. I liked his moral dilemma about law being really consequential to other people's lives.
Unless I'm forgetting someone, I think you're the first person to mention that, amazingly. Admittedly maybe his arc wasn't as impactful as, say, France's or Trey's.
Payson Ivy is a character I have one major issue with, but also kind of love the most in a way. The issue was her selfie gag. I really didn't like it for the sole reason that it's very unprofessional for any authority figure to take candid pictures of people, and that was kind of brushed off as a "tee hee she's silly" when France actively dislikes it, and Ivy knows that but keeps doing it anyway. It's not that people/characters can't have bad senses of boundaries or be unprofessional -- but I felt that the narrative treated it more lightly than it actually should be, and the fact that she transitioned so quickly between "tee hee surprise selfie" and "let's do serious theorizing" made it also seem unnatural and weird. But I recognize that this was supposed to be a throwaway gag to use Maycee's sprites, and I did take a liking to Ivy throughout her testimony. She's clearly observant and smart, and I liked how she kind of took the reins of her testimony and she started asking Miles for proof of his theories instead of France, as well as coming up with some pretty competent deductions of her own (and keeping up with Miles and France's conclusions) despite the Danganronpa-ness of the whole pulley mechanism. I like intelligent women. Payson ended up making me very happy when I was finished with her testimony, and I liked the callbacks to her being one of the last descendants of the original dean and being important to Ivy U as a whole. Aside from the selfie mishap, it felt like she was treated with the respect she deserves.
I addressed this a little bit earlier, though I will note that I also hate when people take pictures of me without my consent, but I think it's easier for me to see the comedic value in it in a "she doesn't know better" kind of way. I'm glad you liked her overall, and I honestly find it really interesting as she's easily the character I think about the least.
Vinnie Reckor is cool. I like them. I already talked about how the breaking in thing was really extreme and shouldn't have been forgiven so easily, so I won't go through it again. I still love Reckor (an enby legend), and I also appreciate how they're sort of an overlooked figure as a professor, being brushed off for having sort of a sloppy world history class but actually being a good person and teacher, at least for someone. Also loved their scene at the end with Trey. They make me happy.
- Overall, favorite characters are Vinnie and Ivy. It's funny how I like them more than France and Manfriede despite having more issues with them, but I think their positives just appealed to me more. But France and Manfriede are definitely tied for third.

STORY:
- The story was pretty good. It seemed like it focused more on its investigation/deduction elements for the most part -- which I'm not sure is intentional, as I got that impression because a lot of the character dialogue was pretty short, but the deduction segments were pretty long. That's not necessarily a problem, though. I felt the characters were about 70% hit and 30% miss, which is a net positive, so take that as a win. I liked the theme of focusing on one's future (Miles not knowing what to pursue and deciding he wants to be a detective, France wanting to ensure justice is served by starting a PI firm, Trey having all sorts of issues, and Kyla needing guidance from someone like Reckor), and the focus on the consequences of this whole situation (Trey's future being screwed, France losing her path as a police detective, Manfriede being dead [duh], Miles's path changing entirely).
- My main issue with the story (I mentioned this earlier) is pacing. As I said, a lot of the character dialogue was pretty short, and I don't mind there being more of a focus on mechanics than story with this case, but given what you did try to accomplish with the story, I felt that more padding would've gone a long way. Some foreshadowing for the treasure (which didn't come up at all until midway through the case, and wasn't hinted at at all), something connecting Trey to the case other than "he lied for no reason so he must be the culprit", some more padding between and within scenes so that the player has time to "sit in the room" with each new discovery/character moment.
I do think more than 3 months to work on this would've resulted in more time to sit with these important moments, but I also think spending a lot of time on characters reacting and not acting feels weird to me, so many of those moments are intentionally short to avoid making things too repetitive. (I was going to write a lot more about this topic, but I think it came off as needlessly hostile and defensive, so I scrapped it.)

OVERALL:
- Good case. I enjoyed playing it. It made me smile.
- Remarkably consistent with how most elements are overall solid but with just one bump in the road that needs smoothing out. (It really is uncanny -- almost every character is good aside from one major thing that I didn't like about them; I liked the plot overall except for its pacing being rocky; I liked all of the graphics but my immersion was broken by Francescarm.)
- Case needs more padding overall. Also needs more Danganronpa music.
- STUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPID!!!!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hope you're having a good night, and hope this review meets you in high spirits. :)
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Re: [I][CE] Sidelined Futures ●

Post by Spoonmaster12 »

This case really scratched that Danganronpa styled mystery itch. The new gameplay stuff was super fun to play around with but I barely got any answers right without the walkthrough.
Spoiler : :
Unfortunately I couldn't really progress after finding the treasure from the tree. The walkthrough says to go back to Miles' dorm and talk about the final deductions. But I don't see any dialogue for that.
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Re: [I][CE] Sidelined Futures ●

Post by CodingAnt »

Spoonmaster12 wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:40 am This case really scratched that Danganronpa styled mystery itch. The new gameplay stuff was super fun to play around with but I barely got any answers right without the walkthrough.
Spoiler : :
Unfortunately I couldn't really progress after finding the treasure from the tree. The walkthrough says to go back to Miles' dorm and talk about the final deductions. But I don't see any dialogue for that.
I swear if one more person mentions Danganronpa... /j /lh
Spoiler : :
As for being unable to progress, there may be a step or two that you forgot. Did you exhaust all of Trey's talk topics and examine the cushion in the background of the cafeteria? Did you remember to talk to Ivy about France and ★ The library ★? If you did do all that, though, then it's a bug, and I'll look into it.
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Re: [I][CE] Sidelined Futures ●

Post by Spoonmaster12 »

CodingAnt wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:55 pm
Spoonmaster12 wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:40 am This case really scratched that Danganronpa styled mystery itch. The new gameplay stuff was super fun to play around with but I barely got any answers right without the walkthrough.
Spoiler : :
Unfortunately I couldn't really progress after finding the treasure from the tree. The walkthrough says to go back to Miles' dorm and talk about the final deductions. But I don't see any dialogue for that.
I swear if one more person mentions Danganronpa... /j /lh
Spoiler : :
As for being unable to progress, there may be a step or two that you forgot. Did you exhaust all of Trey's talk topics and examine the cushion in the background of the cafeteria? Did you remember to talk to Ivy about France and ★ The library ★? If you did do all that, though, then it's a bug, and I'll look into it.
Spoiler : :
Woops, turns out I didn't speak with Ivy, anyways thanks. Dw there is no bug, just me being dumb
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