[T][CE] Phantasmagoria of Betrayal ●

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Ferdielance
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Re: [T][CE] Phantasmagoria of Betrayal ●

Post by Ferdielance »

drvonkitty wrote:So, uh... quick question. Is this case supposed to be a tragedy, or is it a comedy? Or is it like a tragicomedy? Because as I play through this, I'm so very, very, very, very, very confused (emphasis on very if you didn't notice).
Great question! If you unlock developer commentary mode (which just became possible due to events in another thread)... you'll see I had comments about this. Basically:
Spoiler : Some spoilers :
* It was written as a satire of trials that confuse melodramatic, nihilistic darkness with seriousness. As a satire, it has comedy in it. But it's not 100% comedic, and it's serious in its own way.

* Enthalpy's sections are closer, I think, to straight comedy, and mostly tongue-in-cheek, but he also throws serious jabs in there.

* My seconds are primarily comedy, but contain tragic relief. I wanted there to be scenes in the Prologue where people speak without irony and tell the truth plainly. If Viola's scene struck you as not being comic at all, well, it mostly wasn't. It was a chance to drop the mask of irony and just be human for a bit.

So it's a tragicomedy where comedy is dominant, and it's much better to be confused by this than to jump in assuming it's pure crack or purely grim.
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
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Re: [T][CE] Phantasmagoria of Betrayal ●

Post by Bad Player »

It's not a parody. It's a satire~
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Re: [T][CE] Phantasmagoria of Betrayal ●

Post by Acid Rain »

Spoiler : My Thoughts on "Phantasmagoria of Betrayal" :
I was also planning on writing up my stream of conscience while playing this trial, but I soon scrapped it, as I found that all I was doing was complimenting every other frame.

I think the best part of this entire case is the prologue. What makes it so great is not the emotional scenes, nor the humour, (though both were fantastic) but the fact that the reader can never be too certain which direction they'll be taken in next--that it is nigh impossible to tell that this trial is actually a comedy of sorts until most of the prologue has gone by. (It was when the party started when I finally caught on, if I recall.) During my now-history SoC, I kept bringing up the tendency of the trial to pull 180s with the mood. I began to notice that every single time it happened, I was laughing more and more; the mounting confusion only enhanced my enjoyment of the case. By the time the operation briefing screen popped up I lost it completely, and it only kept getting better and better. And after I witnessed the magic that was eight numbskulls diving in front of a bullet like they were part of some crass synchronized bull**** diving act, I could barely believe what I had just experienced. Every joke hit the mark: the balloons, the book, the surgery, the flashbacks, the SINISTAR, the fanfiction, everything.

Maybe it's because this thing is exactly my kind of humor, but I can safely say that playing through that prologue gave me the most enjoyment I have ever had playing an Ace Attorney game, fan-made or otherwise.

Unfortunately I enjoyed the next two parts less than I did the prologue, but that's not to say they weren't enjoyable. I just found that there was never a dull moment to be had in the first part, where the humour comes at you from out of nowhere and with incredible variety, while the trial segments had too many in-jokes (though I'm pretty sure I got almost all of them) and repetition of gags.

So yeah, I can't really think of anything else to say without going into specifics and for the sake of anyone who happens to be reading this before they play Phantasmagoria of Betrayal, I won't do you the ultimate injustice of spoiling parts of this wonderful, dysfunctional adventure.

That being said, if anyone actually fits the above situation I recommend you stop reading and play this thing immediately.
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Re: [T][CE] Phantasmagoria of Betrayal ●

Post by Ferdielance »

Spoiler : Response :
eight numbskulls diving in front of a bullet like they were part of some crass synchronized bull**** diving act
Thank you very much for the creation of this phrase.
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
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Re: [T][CE] Phantasmagoria of Betrayal ●

Post by Acid Rain »

Ferdielance wrote:
Spoiler : Response :
eight numbskulls diving in front of a bullet like they were part of some crass synchronized bull**** diving act
Thank you very much for the creation of this phrase.
I do what I can.
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Re: [T][CE] Phantasmagoria of Betrayal ●

Post by Trybien »

Spoiler : Bug issue requested to be put in spoiler by Enth (fixed) :
Pretty sure I found a bug in the second testimony of the second witness. I found all 4 contradictions, but the game did not progress and it did not seem as if the Detectives Report updated (which it seemed it should). I had this double checked with Spd, and he had come to the same conclusion as well (since he completed the game before with no problems before). I can provide a link to the cross-ex with all of my progression if it would help. If I were to take a guess, there might be something preventing the player from reading the frames with the progression variables (assuming that's how you did it).
Last edited by Trybien on Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [T][CE] Phantasmagoria of Betrayal ●

Post by Enthalpy »

Minor point, Trybien, but I would appreciate if that was put in spoiler tags to be safe.
Spoiler : @ Trybien :
I've fixed a glitch that would cause that problem if the last of the four contradictions you pointed out was the one involving the blood pool. Please tell me if that was not the last contradiction you found. As for the Police Report, does it say, "I questioned the defendant for reasons" or "I questioned the defendant because she was suspicious"? The updated version should be the latter, and there is a bug if it is the former.

Thanks for reporting the bug, and I apologize for the inconvenience. Unfortunately, you will have to either restart the trial portion, get a new save file from somebody, or go back to a previous save before presenting that contradiction. I can get you the save file, if you would like.
[D]isordered speech is not so much injury to the lips that give it forth, as to the disproportion and incoherence of things in themselves, so negligently expressed. ~ Ben Jonson
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Re: [T][CE] Phantasmagoria of Betrayal ●

Post by Trybien »

Enthalpy wrote:Minor point, Trybien, but I would appreciate if that was put in spoiler tags to be safe.
Spoiler : @ Trybien :
I've fixed a glitch that would cause that problem if the last of the four contradictions you pointed out was the one involving the blood pool. Please tell me if that was not the last contradiction you found. As for the Police Report, does it say, "I questioned the defendant for reasons" or "I questioned the defendant because she was suspicious"? The updated version should be the latter, and there is a bug if it is the former.

Thanks for reporting the bug, and I apologize for the inconvenience. Unfortunately, you will have to either restart the trial portion, get a new save file from somebody, or go back to a previous save before presenting that contradiction. I can get you the save file, if you would like.
Spoiler : @Enth :
I'm pretty sure the pool of blood was the last one my first time going through it, but on my attempt to get the bug to repeat, the Questioning defendant was the last one I contradicted, and the bug did repeat.

Also, the Police report updated, it was just such a small section that I didn't notice and just wanted to bring up just in case.

Luckily, I have an earlier save to get back to, but I'll return to playing after I finish some homework.
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Re: [T][CE] Phantasmagoria of Betrayal ●

Post by Enthalpy »

Alright, both glitches should be fixed now. Let me know if there are any further problems, and again, thanks for reporting.
[D]isordered speech is not so much injury to the lips that give it forth, as to the disproportion and incoherence of things in themselves, so negligently expressed. ~ Ben Jonson
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Re: [T][CE] Phantasmagoria of Betrayal ●

Post by Trybien »

Enthalpy wrote:Alright, both glitches should be fixed now. Let me know if there are any further problems, and again, thanks for reporting.
Anytime, and I am really enjoying it so far. I'm rooting for you guys.
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Re: [T][CE] Phantasmagoria of Betrayal ●

Post by Ferdielance »

Links to the soundtrack for PoB have been requested, so I'm posting video links here! If you want .mp3s, tell me, but you need to agree to host them on your own space if you use them in a trial. Spoilers ahoy!
Spoiler : Soundtrack - MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD :
1. Theme-Relevant Loader ~ I Find It Kind of Funny: "Mad World" cover by Nathan Cragg
2. Grimdark Age of the Law ~ Just a Bloody Game (and variations):Tracks from Sleuth (2007) OST, Patrick Doyle; link is to playlist.
3. Attempt Bird Exorcism ~ The Ghost of a Mourning Dove: 静寂の海, SENTIVE
4. My Friend, the Pigeon ~ Bird with a Wounded Wing: 追憶, TAM
5. Antibiotics and Burger Coupons ~ Improvising a Bandage: Rosalia's GUILT, Shoji Meguro
6. Pigeon Profile ~ Wound of an Unknown Pigeon: Patient Profile, Shoji Meguro
7. Operation ~ The Pigeon's Life is in Your Hands: Operation Theme, Shoji Meguro
8. Danger ~ Imminent Death: Code Blue, Shoji Meguro
9. Operation Successful ~ Triumph: Success, Shoji Meguro
10. Operation Failed ~ The ASPCA Will Be Notified: Consequences, Shoji Meguro
11. CPR ~ I Will Not Let this Pigeon Die: Vulnerability, Shoji Meguro
12. At the Lakeside ~ A Comedy with Tragic Relief: Romanza (trad.), Jeff Wahl
13. Reverie ~ Quiet Time with Maya: 途絶, SENTIVE
14. Russian Pigeon ~ Vladimir Pigeonovich Pigeonovsky: Korobeiniki (trad.), Ivan Surzhikov
15. Japanese Pigeon ~ Domo Arigato, Mr. Hato: Tokyo Ondo (trad.)
16. Lithuanian Pigeon ~ Pillbox Hat and Pigeon: Lithuanian song
17. Piano Tune ~ Quiet Time with Viola and Pigeon: Hoshimiya's Piano, Noriyuki Iwadare
18. Drama ~ Taking the Bullet: Don't Speak Her Name!, Fire Emblem OST
19. Opening Credits ~ A New Era of Madness: Land of Rose, Rose Guns Days OST
20. Funeral Requiem ~ Lacrimosa: Mozart's Lacrimosa, Jordi Franch Parella
21. Wrightczyk Manor ~ The Joy of Locked Rooms: (not available on YouTube) Noma's Theme, Noriyuki Iwadare
22. Bugged Office ~ A Traitor Lurks in Plain View: Corpse Theme, Chris Brayman
23. Desert of Futility ~ Grim Enlightenment: Violin-Piano Song, Marniz Productions
24. Lobby ~ Grim Prelude: 体のない夜, Pre-Holder
25. Despair ~ Grim, Black Coffee: Kami no Nai Machi, Rose Guns Days OST
26. Witness ~ A Dubious Testimony: Haitokusanka, Rose Guns Days OST
27. Cross-Examination ~ A Cage of Flawless Logic: Reasoning, Death Note OST 2 + sped-up versions.
28. Objection ~ Strike at the Deception: Bullet, Rose Guns Days OST
29. Forgery ~ And You Didn't See this Coming?: Hikage no Yugami, Rose Guns Days OST
30. Pearl's Cross-Examination ~ An Elusive Grain of Truth: Too Much Sleuth, Sleuth (2007) OST
31. Reminiscence ~ Flashback to Simpler Times: 春 風, dai
32. Pursuit ~ Breaking the Locks: Black Knight, Rose Guns Days OST
33. Announce the Truth ~ A Logical Explanation: 棘, dai
34. Final Despair ~ A Grimdark End: 断罪回廊, M. Zakky
35. Final Despair ~ A Badge Defiled: Death to Illusions, Rose Guns Days OST
36. Utter Bleak Despair ~ Grimdark Past, Grimdark Future: 葬り去る花, Pre-holder
37. Dual Duel ~ A Battle of Nerves: 7 Weights, xaki
38. Final Duel ~ The Traitor's Game: Miragecoordinator, zts
39. End Credits ~ Farewell, My Grimdark: Farewell My Lovely, David Shire
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
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Re: [T][CE] Phantasmagoria of Betrayal ●

Post by Itashi »

Erm, I think there's a bug when i reload save files.
Spoiler : :
I really like saving just in case I want to review some stuff that I've sped through while clicking too fast. Not having to reload after saving saves so much time for me since my connection is super slow. But when I reload saves, the variables(?) will be reset to 0. I think the name I input (iirc) and the pigeon's name (definitely) came out as 0 using those files. That's for the 1st issue.

So I tried reloading in a new tab, and while trying to open the last save file(at the thought route), my browser wouldn't respond anymore and I had to close it using the task manager. This happened all the times I've tried to reload. My browser is Firefox btw. I hope this is clear, let me know if you need more details or clarification.

I'm guessing that I have to start from the top again and complete the trial in one sitting. How long would it take to finish the entire game? Can I have links in separate parts just in case? I would really appreciate that.
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Re: [T][CE] Phantasmagoria of Betrayal ●

Post by Ferdielance »

Thank you for reporting that. I've added the individual links to each part, and I'm going to try to implement a password save/load system when I get a chance! This will allow you to jump to scenes.
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
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Re: [T][CE] Phantasmagoria of Betrayal ●

Post by Tap »

Spoiler : As promised... :
I don't do running commentary or streams of consciousness anymore, but here is the feedback as I promised a couple of days ago.

...Where to begin? This was a surprisingly short trial. I mean, I chose not to spin the wheel when prompted, and I ended up getting Ending Z. Perfectly content with that ending, I closed the "X", and here I am writing the comments. ...What do you mean that's not the ending? Of course it is! I felt no obligation to spin the wheel and keep on playing! ...Alright, fine. I'll spin the wheel. *grumble*

To start off with, I liked Phantasmagoria of Betrayal, but I didn't necessarily love it. While I enjoyed the fact it was a well-crafted and terrible (as in 'cheekily amazing/icantbelieveujustdidthat') satire, for me I felt it was both too heavy and too much after a while playing it, and by the time I got to the trial session, I wasn't enjoying the trial as much as one might have been expected to. In this case, the humour didn't work quite well for me, but I can see that it did for others.

Still, I have to applaud the two of you for your excellent dialogue writing skills and the difficulty of trying to write 'serious' dialogue when the premise is both over-the-top and ridiculously funny. I really appreciate excellent dialogue because of my own poor writing skills, so I tip my hat to the both of you for it. Of course, the humour was spot on, and there were plenty of laughs... but what I appreciated the most in the case was the sheer effort that went into presentation. The custom graphics, the functional 'Thought Route' segment, the various mini-games -- especially the Trauma Centre operation with the pigeon. It's the presentation that makes this case a stand-out for me.

...Although I didn't really get the whole humour with the pigeon until a couple of members on xat clarified it for me. I didn't know you (Ferdie) liked Hatoful Boyfriend until I asked, so the entire pigeon-humour flew right over my head... no pun intended or rather, lack of a pun considering the pigeon was in no position to fly. :XD:

...Which brings me to my final point. You're lucky that killing Maya off outweighed the sheer agony and torture that it was controlling her for a short time in the Prologue. Why would the two of you subject us players to having to control a character who isn't smart, who doesn't think ahead, and has the attention span of a goldfish...!? As you might guess, I, like BB, am not a big fan of Maya. Which is why I reject the fact she's still alive! ...Although I shouldn't be too surprised, considering that you (Ferdie) coded for Checkmate and Turnabout! Don't think I haven't forgotten your sin, Ferdie![/joke] :XD:

In Blackrune fashion... Approved.
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Re: [T][CE] Phantasmagoria of Betrayal ●

Post by Ferdielance »

Thanks a lot for the review!
Spoiler : Hmm :
I can definitely buy that the sheer density of absurdity on display here isn't for everyone. While we started off gradually, alternating openly comic scenes with mock-serious ones, there was a unspoken rule for the finale: Every successive twist had to be more insane than the one before. How do you top one piece of faked evidence? An entire court record of fake evidence! How do you top THAT? An entire fake case, fake crime, and fake victim! How do you top that? An entire fake trial! And so on, without relief, until Godot turns out to be a pigeon.

When this works for someone, it's hilarious, but when it doesn't, it gets tedious. Just as locked room mysteries pile one contrivance on another until the people who love them are satisfied and the people who dislike them are incredulous, this kind of comedy depends on never giving the player any rest, until they either given in and laugh, or give up and do something else.

As for Maya - I think she gets a bad rap in fancases in general, but there's more depth to her character than people usually give her credit for. And even if she's got her head in the clouds, it makes her a pretty good companion to Phoenix, who's also kind of airheaded for the first few games and only develops real cunning in 1-5. ("LET'S PRESENT THE EVIDENCE TO THE CULPRIT! THAT ALWAYS WORKS!")
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
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