[T][C] The Based Turnabout ★

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Re: [T] The Based Turnabout ●

Post by eerew »

ChingKittyCat wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:04 am That's going on the signature.
If you insist
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Re: [T] The Based Turnabout ●

Post by MedicInDisquise »

Hi, this case was really hilarious, every other line was (dare I say it) based as hell. I would post every joke that made me laugh but that would be the case from literally before the case begun to the very last line so I won't. But shoutout to the choice in the thought route (as every based case should have) to go back to the beginning
Spoiler : :
actually taking you to an end screen to force you back to the "beginning"
.

And unlike some other comedy cases or even serious cases, the crime actually worked out as a crime.
Spoiler : MAJOR SPOILERS!!1! :
In particular, Luke killing himself despite feeling like it should be a cliche was actually a pretty good twist in the context of this case.
999/10
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Re: [T] The Based Turnabout ☆

Post by Bad Player »

☆ This case is pending a QA inspection to be featured.
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Re: [T] The Based Turnabout ☆

Post by Bannedfrom7 »

[Inserting Pog emoji here]

Good luck!
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Re: [T] The Based Turnabout ☆

Post by SuperAj3 »

From being taken down to being featured. Truly, the comeback kid.
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Re: [T] The Based Turnabout ☆

Post by ceets »

It's really good 11/10
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Re: [T] The Based Turnabout ☆

Post by Bradel »

Here
Are
8
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For
You
I hope you're happy
I would play this one again, liked it. 8/10 (also eerew my beloved)
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Re: [T] The Based Turnabout ☆

Post by Bad Player »

Sorry for the delay. It takes a lot of effort to review a case this based.
Spoiler : :
Image
Actual screenshot from Apollo Justice... which came out in 2008
i'll pass it

You can tell this case is a bit off from the very beginning, just from the badge and profile descriptions (implying that Trucy would've been born when Phoenix was 10!!), and it wastes no time diving into childish antics and silly gags, parading around the characters are silly caricatures of themselves (or throwing out their typical personalities entirely if the joke calls for it) without a care in the world. In other words, the trial is extremely based.

And yet the entire thing is undergirded by a coherent murder mystery. Meticulous care has been poured into smoothing out gameplay edges (that a "normal" player would probably gloss over but that stood out to me. For instance, when a press conversation resulted in evidence, not only would the "[X] has been added to the Court Record" frame be hidden the second time, but the entire conversation would be tweaked to remove the implication that the evidence was being added. Co-counsel conversations update depending on how far in the cross-examination the player has progressed! Alternate objections are accounted for!) There are even occasional moments of lucidity, such as the point that Phoenix only needs to prove the defendant innocent, not someone else guilty.

Honestly it's the polish that threw me for a loop the most. Would the creators really have put in the time and effort on presentation (and snuck in an explanation for all the shenanigans with the reference to Nick's psychosis medication) and added the moments of lucidity if this truly went no deeper than the juvenile comedy on the surface?

...The answer to that question, apparently, is yes.

It feels weird. I almost want less polish on the presentation, in order to better reflect the tone of the plot, but I don't think that's something I can seriously ask for. Despite the hints of something more, The Based Turnabout is just a silly comedy trial, and as a silly comedy trial it works. Gags are only ever paused in order to develop the plot, but the two are often handled together. The comedy pays no attention to canon, but the game is obviously unserious so it doesn't need to. The mystery plot is a bit wonky and ends up feeling a fair bit like a certain canon case, and while it probably wouldn't be satisfying as a main course it functions perfectly fine as a side dish to the comedy.

I don't have too many comments. There are a few minor presentation issues and some typos. There are a lot more ungrammatical moments, but those feel like intentional design choices to fit the wacky, casual atmosphere, so I tried to pick out legitimate, unintentional errors.

This thread also desperately needs a [C] tag. I don't want anyone wandering in here expecting more than meets the eye.

11: its -> it’s
6: turned -> would turn. Also you’re missing the )
18: Is shaking (instead of nodding) intentional?
Floorplan’s description should say “second floor [of building]”
666: Edgeworth’s mouth shouldn’t move
23: I think this frame is supposed to be hidden
277: NDA’s -> NDAs
756: Gumshoe has the wrong coat
468: Wrong Edgeworth
520: Four lines
1610: You’re missing parentheses
994: Add a comma after “often”
Profiles and evidence should be updated to be from Edgeworth’s point of view when we switch to him.

48: Capitalize “i"
174: 2020 -> 20/20
177: Wrong Edgeworth
178: Capitalize “I’m”
204: eachother -> each other
299: Capitalize “I’ll”
You should explain the logic in the first contradiction a bit more clearly. I’m also not really sure why they’re discussing the 7-8 timespan (and not including anything after 8)
941: eachother -> each other
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Re: [T][CE] The Based Turnabout ☆

Post by Trybien »

Everything you could ask for in an unhinged comedy. Unfortunately this isn't billed as a comedy case in the topic, so 0/10.

Played this on my let's play channel with legacy AAO users TAR and Lunch providing voices. I'll refrain from posting it here since the videos clearly break site rules; however, the three of us had a blast of a time and is some of the most fun we've had with anything Ace Attorney related.
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Re: [T][CE] The Based Turnabout ☆

Post by eerew »

Trybien wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 4:17 am Unfortunately this isn't billed as a comedy case in the topic, so 0/10. Also, I love you eerew. Marry me?
title is fixed now :)
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Re: [T] The Based Turnabout ☆

Post by eerew »

hi lol i noticed trybien's response but not this. responses in bold
Spoiler : :
Sorry for the delay. It takes a lot of effort to review a case this based.
Spoiler : :
Image
Actual screenshot from Apollo Justice... which came out in 2008
i'll pass it

t-thank you :oops:

You can tell this case is a bit off from the very beginning, just from the badge and profile descriptions (implying that Trucy would've been born when Phoenix was 10!!), and it wastes no time diving into childish antics and silly gags, parading around the characters are silly caricatures of themselves (or throwing out their typical personalities entirely if the joke calls for it) without a care in the world. In other words, the trial is extremely based.

And yet the entire thing is undergirded by a coherent murder mystery. Meticulous care has been poured into smoothing out gameplay edges (that a "normal" player would probably gloss over but that stood out to me. For instance, when a press conversation resulted in evidence, not only would the "[X] has been added to the Court Record" frame be hidden the second time, but the entire conversation would be tweaked to remove the implication that the evidence was being added. Co-counsel conversations update depending on how far in the cross-examination the player has progressed! Alternate objections are accounted for!) There are even occasional moments of lucidity, such as the point that Phoenix only needs to prove the defendant innocent, not someone else guilty.

Honestly it's the polish that threw me for a loop the most. Would the creators really have put in the time and effort on presentation (and snuck in an explanation for all the shenanigans with the reference to Nick's psychosis medication) and added the moments of lucidity if this truly went no deeper than the juvenile comedy on the surface?

...The answer to that question, apparently, is yes.

It feels weird. I almost want less polish on the presentation, in order to better reflect the tone of the plot, but I don't think that's something I can seriously ask for. Despite the hints of something more, The Based Turnabout is just a silly comedy trial, and as a silly comedy trial it works. Gags are only ever paused in order to develop the plot, but the two are often handled together. The comedy pays no attention to canon, but the game is obviously unserious so it doesn't need to. The mystery plot is a bit wonky and ends up feeling a fair bit like a certain canon case, and while it probably wouldn't be satisfying as a main course it functions perfectly fine as a side dish to the comedy.

I don't have too many comments. There are a few minor presentation issues and some typos. There are a lot more ungrammatical moments, but those feel like intentional design choices to fit the wacky, casual atmosphere, so I tried to pick out legitimate, unintentional errors.

This thread also desperately needs a [C] tag. I don't want anyone wandering in here expecting more than meets the eye.

11: its -> it’s
6: turned -> would turn. Also you’re missing the )
18: Is shaking (instead of nodding) intentional?
yeah, because before it he thinks "i only brought my badge"
Floorplan’s description should say “second floor [of building]”
666: Edgeworth’s mouth shouldn’t move
it's on do not talk. maybe this was written before i fixed it. (watched trybien's let's play and fixed mistakes as i saw them)
23: I think this frame is supposed to be hidden
no cause edgeworth's reading the paper (need to make sure people know he's reading the paper)
277: NDA’s -> NDAs
756: Gumshoe has the wrong coat
468: Wrong Edgeworth
gumshoe and edgeworth wrong sprites are intentional. also gumshoe is mirrored in this cross examination somewhere lol
520: Four lines
i think this is only on firefox, at least not on chrome. i'll fix this.
1610: You’re missing parentheses
994: Add a comma after “often”
yes sir
Profiles and evidence should be updated to be from Edgeworth’s point of view when we switch to him.
I was thinking of doing this but that would require effort. i'll do it when i wake up i guess :3

48: Capitalize “i"
174: 2020 -> 20/20
177: Wrong Edgeworth
:D
178: Capitalize “I’m”
204: eachother -> each other
299: Capitalize “I’ll”
You should explain the logic in the first contradiction a bit more clearly. I’m also not really sure why they’re discussing the 7-8 timespan (and not including anything after 8)
The 7-8 timespan is the time that Phoenix's hypothetical fourth party enters the room, because that's when the meeting was taking place. Phoenix's assumption is that the killer came in and stabbed Mr. Atmey while he was resting (because they thought it was Mr. Listayte), which would've been between 7-8 because that was when Mr. Atmey was resting in the room.

The fourth party left the room at 8:05, as Redd White testified, so there's not much to discuss from this point, since the testimony is about the moment of the murder.

There's a chance this was already fixed, sometime recently after someone playtested the game I took care to go through and make sure every objection explained what the contradiction was clearly, because previously not all of them did that.

941: eachother -> each other
thanks for the review :o

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Re: [T][C] The Based Turnabout ★

Post by XavierWright »

Well, I just finished this case and have only one thing to say.

It may be ridiculous, but it's the good kind of ridiculous.
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Re: [T][C] The Based Turnabout ★

Post by TimeAxis »

Okay, after over a month, I was able to make it through this case. Let me start by saying that this is not a case I would ever choose to play on my own. It was very clear to me even from a cursory glance that it wasn't for me. But I was specifically asked to play and review it, and I promised I would, so here we are. I'm only giving that caveat so it doesn't look like I specifically sought out something I wouldn't like just so I could shit on it. I'm not normally in the hobby of doing that. So apologies if this review is harsh, but it's my honest opinion. No disrespect intended to the authors, but I'm not pulling any punches here. Also keep in mind that this is a featured trial, and I am judging it with the expectation that it must have been good enough to be featured.

The Based Turnabout by BlairPrivPriv and eerew
Spoiler : Screenshot :
Image
Spoiler : Review :
Story:
First off, it wouldn't be right not to acknowledge that this is clearly a comedy trial first and foremost, and so the case lives or dies by whether or not its jokes land. At the risk of spoiling how the rest of this review is going to go: for me they did not. There were some hints of some clever bits here and there that I might have laughed at had they been executed better, but unfortunately they were all deliberately couched in nonsense that soured the taste for me. The comedic style of this case left me generally unamused and even outright annoyed at points. Had I been playing this case on my own initiative without having committed to finishing and reviewing it, there are numerous points where I would have just stopped playing. If I were new to AAO, saw this trial on the front page, and it were the first case I played, I would probably never visit this website again. That being said, obviously mileage is going to vary here. Comedy is very subjective. My impression is that the authors of this case are probably pretty young and I'm the out-of-touch boomer in this situation, so the humor may land better for other people of that same age bracket. If you're like me and don't really enjoy immature humor, this case may not be for you.

I can only speak to my own experience however. So with humor out of the picture, we're left with the story. And the story does not do this case any favors. Not only was I not moved or compelled by the story in any way, I actively disliked it. Putting aside the weird and slightly sinister set-up of 3 grown men having a party with Maya Fey (a set-up which stretches the limits of suspension of disbelief, and which the case makes pretty much no attempt to explain), the story largely carries the same immature tone as the humor. There is an attempt made to set up a mystery, which I'll talk more about later, but overall I found the story lacking. And it's a shame, because a scarce few moments seemed genuinely clever, giving the impression that this case had the potential to be more than it is, but it just wasn't enough to carry my interest.

I wish I could say something positive about the story, but I really can't. I genuinely feel dumber for having finished it.

Characters
I won't try to judge how well this case adheres to characters' canon personalities, because it's clearly not meant to. For all intents and purposes, these are all just completely different characters from their canon versions who happen to share the same names. But judging them on their own, as original characters, there is not a single character in this case that comes across as likable. In fact, there is not a single character in this case who even seems to have a personality of their own. I'm confident that you could randomly swap the graphics and names for all the characters in this case and it would make zero difference to the story. Every single character just talks like a 14 year old zoomer girl. Even the Judge. Rather than actual characters, they all come across more like props to deliver jokes and facilitate the mystery. Character motivations were juvenile at best, and completely nonsensical at worst. I enjoyed nothing about the characters.

Presentation:
Some might be tempted to give this case a pass on things because they're intentional. I'm not doing that. The presentation in this case is just bad. The visuals are frequently a broken mess. Punctuation is often completely missing. Spelling, grammar and capitalization are often completely disregarded. The only aspect of the presentation I have no real complaints about is the audio, which seemed fine but didn't particularly stand out either. It's clear that much of this is an intentional design choice, but making an ugly mess of a case intentionally is still making an ugly mess of a case. And the vast majority of it isn't even done as a part of a joke, either. For example, there are parts with broken fades that play twice or have the characters pop in and out. There's no punchline there, that's just a bug. It serves no purpose besides looking bad. And because of how terrible the presentation is, it's impossible to tell which parts are actually intentionally bad, and which parts are legitimate mistakes, so it's not as if I can go through and start pointing them out in the hopes that the authors will fix them. I would normally be more forgiving toward these kinds of mistakes if it was clear that the author was at least trying to make the case look good, but that's not happening here.

If there was one thing I can give props for, it's the floor plan diagrams. They were readable and served their purpose well. So there's that at least.

Gameplay:
It can't all be bad, right? Well, good news. The gameplay, and by extension the mystery, was probably the only part of this case that I didn't actively dislike. I didn't particularly enjoy it, but it was fine at least. In terms of case logic, there is at least a clear display of effort put into having things make sense. It doesn't always succeed, but the effort is there. Unfortunately, I was not a fan of the way the case started experimenting with the gameplay formula. The structure of the cross-examinations, particularly near the end felt very disorienting to me. The way some statements would be replaced with new pink dialogue while the rest of them remained meant that the remaining statements were suddenly left lacking in context. This was a minor issue, however, and I appreciated the experimentation more than I disliked the result.

The biggest problem with the gameplay and the mystery, however, and it's really more of an issue with the case at large, is the way you're constantly being asked to turn your brain off until you hit a point where you actually need to turn it on again and start paying attention to things that you might have otherwise dismissed as nonsense. When the majority of your case makes no sense (juvenile character motivations, completely arbitrary setup, nonsensical dialogue, ridiculous evidence), it becomes very difficult to sift through that noise and find the parts that you actually need to take seriously. I had to take several very long breaks just to make sense of things, and I had the benefit of being able to go back and rewatch a recording. Most players don't have that.

If you were to take this case's mystery and strip it out of this case and put it in something more coherent, I might have appreciated it more. But because it was so inextricably linked to the nonsense of the rest of the case, I was left frustrated and disoriented more often than not. As a result, I came away feeling that the mystery was mediocre at best. At the very least, it wasn't outright bad. But it wasn't nearly enough to turn around my opinion on the case.

That all being said, this entire review is made with the full understanding that I am not the target audience of this case. This may be a completely worthless review for someone who loves the kind of humor on display in this trial.

Spoiler : Overall :
PROS
  • If you are 15, you might find it funny
  • The mystery had a couple of good moments
CONS
  • Terrible presentation
  • Unlikable cast of characters
  • Immature and nonsensical story
  • I honestly have no idea how this made it through the QA process
I was also asked to record my playthrough. I initially said no, but in the end I decided to do it.
Spoiler : Playthrough :
But just a warning, the whole thing is just me being a boomer, not laughing at any of the jokes, and complaining about how nothing makes sense the whole time. But, I mean, you asked for it. So if you still want to see it, here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeVcrAF ... w_&index=2
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Re: [T][C] The Based Turnabout ★

Post by eerew »

Responses in bold.
Spoiler : :
TimeAxis wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 7:29 pm Okay, after over a month, I was able to make it through this case. Let me start by saying that this is not a case I would ever choose to play on my own. It was very clear to me even from a cursory glance that it wasn't for me. But I was specifically asked to play and review it, and I promised I would, so here we are. I'm only giving that caveat so it doesn't look like I specifically sought out something I wouldn't like just so I could shit on it. I'm not normally in the hobby of doing that. So apologies if this review is harsh, but it's my honest opinion. No disrespect intended to the authors, but I'm not pulling any punches here. Also keep in mind that this is a featured trial, and I am judging it with the expectation that it must have been good enough to be featured.

The Based Turnabout by BlairPrivPriv and eerew
Spoiler : Screenshot :
Image
Spoiler : Review :
Story:
First off, it wouldn't be right not to acknowledge that this is clearly a comedy trial first and foremost, and so the case lives or dies by whether or not its jokes land. At the risk of spoiling how the rest of this review is going to go: for me they did not. There were some hints of some clever bits here and there that I might have laughed at had they been executed better, but unfortunately they were all deliberately couched in nonsense that soured the taste for me. The comedic style of this case left me generally unamused and even outright annoyed at points. Had I been playing this case on my own initiative without having committed to finishing and reviewing it, there are numerous points where I would have just stopped playing. If I were new to AAO, saw this trial on the front page, and it were the first case I played, I would probably never visit this website again. That being said, obviously mileage is going to vary here. Comedy is very subjective. My impression is that the authors of this case are probably pretty young and I'm the out-of-touch boomer in this situation, so the humor may land better for other people of that same age bracket. If you're like me and don't really enjoy immature humor, this case may not be for you.

I can only speak to my own experience however. So with humor out of the picture, we're left with the story. And the story does not do this case any favors. Not only was I not moved or compelled by the story in any way, I actively disliked it. Putting aside the weird and slightly sinister set-up of 3 grown men having a party with Maya Fey (a set-up which stretches the limits of suspension of disbelief, and which the case makes pretty much no attempt to explain), the story largely carries the same immature tone as the humor. There is an attempt made to set up a mystery, which I'll talk more about later, but overall I found the story lacking. And it's a shame, because a scarce few moments seemed genuinely clever, giving the impression that this case had the potential to be more than it is, but it just wasn't enough to carry my interest.

I wish I could say something positive about the story, but I really can't. I genuinely feel dumber for having finished it.

Characters
I won't try to judge how well this case adheres to characters' canon personalities, because it's clearly not meant to. For all intents and purposes, these are all just completely different characters from their canon versions who happen to share the same names. But judging them on their own, as original characters, there is not a single character in this case that comes across as likable. In fact, there is not a single character in this case who even seems to have a personality of their own. I'm confident that you could randomly swap the graphics and names for all the characters in this case and it would make zero difference to the story. Every single character just talks like a 14 year old zoomer girl. Even the Judge. Rather than actual characters, they all come across more like props to deliver jokes and facilitate the mystery. Character motivations were juvenile at best, and completely nonsensical at worst. I enjoyed nothing about the characters.

Presentation:
Some might be tempted to give this case a pass on things because they're intentional. I'm not doing that. The presentation in this case is just bad. The visuals are frequently a broken mess. Punctuation is often completely missing. Spelling, grammar and capitalization are often completely disregarded. The only aspect of the presentation I have no real complaints about is the audio, which seemed fine but didn't particularly stand out either. It's clear that much of this is an intentional design choice, but making an ugly mess of a case intentionally is still making an ugly mess of a case. And the vast majority of it isn't even done as a part of a joke, either. For example, there are parts with broken fades that play twice or have the characters pop in and out. There's no punchline there, that's just a bug. It serves no purpose besides looking bad. And because of how terrible the presentation is, it's impossible to tell which parts are actually intentionally bad, and which parts are legitimate mistakes, so it's not as if I can go through and start pointing them out in the hopes that the authors will fix them. I would normally be more forgiving toward these kinds of mistakes if it was clear that the author was at least trying to make the case look good, but that's not happening here.

If there was one thing I can give props for, it's the floor plan diagrams. They were readable and served their purpose well. So there's that at least.

Gameplay:
It can't all be bad, right? Well, good news. The gameplay, and by extension the mystery, was probably the only part of this case that I didn't actively dislike. I didn't particularly enjoy it, but it was fine at least. In terms of case logic, there is at least a clear display of effort put into having things make sense. It doesn't always succeed, but the effort is there. Unfortunately, I was not a fan of the way the case started experimenting with the gameplay formula. The structure of the cross-examinations, particularly near the end felt very disorienting to me. The way some statements would be replaced with new pink dialogue while the rest of them remained meant that the remaining statements were suddenly left lacking in context. This was a minor issue, however, and I appreciated the experimentation more than I disliked the result.

The biggest problem with the gameplay and the mystery, however, and it's really more of an issue with the case at large, is the way you're constantly being asked to turn your brain off until you hit a point where you actually need to turn it on again and start paying attention to things that you might have otherwise dismissed as nonsense. When the majority of your case makes no sense (juvenile character motivations, completely arbitrary setup, nonsensical dialogue, ridiculous evidence), it becomes very difficult to sift through that noise and find the parts that you actually need to take seriously. I had to take several very long breaks just to make sense of things, and I had the benefit of being able to go back and rewatch a recording. Most players don't have that.

If you were to take this case's mystery and strip it out of this case and put it in something more coherent, I might have appreciated it more. But because it was so inextricably linked to the nonsense of the rest of the case, I was left frustrated and disoriented more often than not. As a result, I came away feeling that the mystery was mediocre at best. At the very least, it wasn't outright bad. But it wasn't nearly enough to turn around my opinion on the case.

That all being said, this entire review is made with the full understanding that I am not the target audience of this case. This may be a completely worthless review for someone who loves the kind of humor on display in this trial.

Spoiler : Overall :
PROS
  • If you are 15, you might find it funny
  • The mystery had a couple of good moments
CONS
  • Terrible presentation
  • Unlikable cast of characters
  • Immature and nonsensical story
  • I honestly have no idea how this made it through the QA process
I was also asked to record my playthrough. I initially said no, but in the end I decided to do it.
Spoiler : Playthrough :
But just a warning, the whole thing is just me being a boomer, not laughing at any of the jokes, and complaining about how nothing makes sense the whole time. But, I mean, you asked for it. So if you still want to see it, here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeVcrAF ... w_&index=2
Thanks for playing!
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Re: [T][C] The Based Turnabout ★

Post by TimeAxis »

Oh actually there was one positive thing I forgot to mention.
Spoiler : :
The idea of there being a killcam before you die is actually a super cool idea. Whoever thought of that line, it was pretty clever. It was mostly just a throwaway line, but it would be cool if there was a case that explored that idea more. Like some kind of reverse divination seance.
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