International Politics Thread

[Phantom]

My parents love them some BBC when they have time to. Definitely reliable.

[E.D.Revolution]

So, Mitt Romney chose Paul Ryan as his VP. This is probably the first time in a long while where a VP's choice left me feeling speechless. And not in a good way. Usually I have an opinion of VPs as they are chosen (Cheney, Biden, Palin), but I'm not sure what to say about Paul Ryan. Is this going to be more of a borefest from the Romney Camp? All I see him as boring and really saying nothing.

[Singidava]

A boring choice was more or less expected as Romney wouldn't want his VP do any showy mistakes (a lá Palin) that'd reduce his chaces. This is especially true since the anti-ads have become dirtier and dirtier. Blunders wouldn't go unnoticed and those ads would make sure that the whole country sees every single one of them.

[E.D.Revolution]

I have not said much on the recent trends on International politics lately, but this is where I feel that it's time to start talking again. I'm not talking about the US elections (I am really sick of it)... But of #MuslimRage. Or more popularly in the US: Arab Winter.

As you may or may not know, it started when a group of extremists stormed the US Embassay in Libya and killed Ambassador Chris Stevens. Then (or around the same time) an anti-muslim video was released by some con Coptic Christian living in the US. Now, knowing the state of the Middle East, you can say it started a wildfire of events... More embassy stormings and Anti-US sentiments.

I've been following the Middle East for a long time, and at some point, something like this was bound to happen. Am I surprised with some of the reactions? Somewhat. If we're talking about the US, then fine, I'm not surprised. But Germany? A German Embassy was attacked? What the hell did Germany have to do with this?

Anyway, here are a couple of events I'd want to share.


1. The storming of Benghazi and the backlash from within

As it turns out, the US Ambassador to Libya (Chris Stevens) was a well-loved figure in Libya. It becomes more obvious that it was an extremist attack rather than legitimate anger against the US. The extremists were very lucky that they had a cover (in the form of that anti-Muslim video). They kill the ambassador and three other people. They try to pass it off as "US hates Islam!"



They really underestimated the popularity the Ambassador had in Libya. He was so popular and well-loved that the Libyans are quite frankly pissed off that he was killed. Just recently, the Libyans stormed an extremist stronghold (the same one responsible for the attack) and kicked them out peacefully. The righteously angry protesters had the support of the police and military. Thankfully, no bloodshed. However, I don't think this will the be the last of such events. The extremists would be extremely stupid to retaliate for this event. If they want to survive in Libya, they're going to need the support of the Libyan people. And at this point, the Libyans are righteously furious against them.

I know it's not as simple as that, with the interim government handling the militias, but all I care about is that the Libyans will not stand for crap.

As long as the Libyans work towards uprooting the extreme elements in their country, I say this country has a strong chance to rebuild their country, in a country without Qaddafi.

2. Anger in Egypt

This worries me a bit. Hosni Mubarak is gone (dead, really) and we have a new president who was a part of the Muslim Brotherhood. Though he did study in the US at some point at his life. Could I say he's good for the US? I'm not sure. I'm pretty neutral about him at the moment. I was and I still am... Here's why I'm still neutral, even after the recent events:

The #MuslimRage has spread to Egypt, especially after the video. The fact it turned out to be a Coptic Christian who made the move made things worse, knowing the religious history in Egypt. What was the first response from the President? Condemnation of the video. Okay, that would be understandable by itself, but this was accompanied by attacks on embassies and demonstrations. It took a phone call from President Barack Obama to get the president of Egypt to condemn the attacks on embassies. I wonder where his priorities lie... Defending an irrational response to a video or innocent foreign dignitaries. Is he making Egypt a better place? For now, it's way too early to judge. Given how they run their elections and their military, I think I'm justified in feeling neutral at the very most.

3. Pakistan's teachers teaching children to hate the US

I think anyone in the US who has even a passing interest with Pakistan would not like Pakistan at all. And then there's news of teachers teaching the students to hate the US... You don't know how much this angers anyone in the US.

There is no hope for Pakistan, and it'd be in the interest of the US to get the fc,uk out of Pakistan. They're like teenagers caught in a cathouse doing crack cocaine and they're angry at the parents (US) for catching them in the act. Only difference is Pakistan has nukes, and you know the response from the US regarding nukes.

I would like to see them carpet bombed (at least the governmental and military buildings) with drones. The Pakistani government knowingly hid information regarding al-Qaeda, the Taliban, the Haqqani Network, and bin Laden's location. They have no right to be mad at us. You, Pakis, did something very criminal and you deserve no mercy from us. Do I care that the use of drones are controversial in of itself recently? No, I really don't give a fc.uk about it. You want to turn this into the next Iran contra? Go on. I dare you. You're clearly in the wrong.

And I would like to say about Afghan president Hamid Karzai: go fck yourself. I'm putting you in the same vein with Pakistan.




Of course that will never happen unless the US wants to get kicked out of the Security Council and get dragged to the International Court of Justice. So, all I can hope for is that the US finish its business with Pakistan and get out and cut off diplomatic relations.

4. The Bloodshed in al-Assad's Syria.

Going for over a year, there's quite a bit of bloodshed in Syria. There's the fight between al-Assad's military and the ragtag Resistance. Snipers and guerrilla war making people's lives miserable. The last time I checked on the situation, the rebel forces were not making much progress (even with some assistance from other countries) and Assad was still the leader, although his inner circle was starting to crack, with the departure/defection of several high ranking officials. There's Asma al-Assad, formerly beloved First Lady, who has not said a thing about the bloodshed. This got her the ire from the UK, in which, iirc, she was barred from going there to, what else?, shop. There were reports of al-Assad's forces brutalizing many innocent people as well as the rebels.

Honestly, I can't tell you where this will be going. All I can see is more stalemates in the immediate future. Even with the threat of al-Assad using chemical weapons, I can't tell how this will end. All I know is that he was warned not to use them. Without direct action from the US (even though Secretary of State Hillary Clinton wants to condemn the attacks), it's harder to tell how this will end. Although it will be obvious that there will be more bloodshed, there's no telling which side will win this civil war.

[King Pie]

..This thread exists... YES!

[Phantom]

I have no comment on the majority of your post, but I'm very surprised you of all people would generalize some of the aspects of Pakistan. (Actually, I'm just surprised you're blatantly generalizing, doesn't seem like you at all)

For example, what teachers are you talking about exactly? You know in Pakistan, there's more than one type of "teacher". There's one that teaches general education, and then, there is one that teaches all aspects of religion, and can mix this up with general education.

You may know the ones that teaches based on Islamic foundations as madrasas. Madrasas are basically institutions that teach everything about Islam, and are usually one of the only places a parent can afford to send their child to go to there. In terms of teaching religious intolerance/discrimination, yes, I can agree that there is anti-Christian/Hindu sentiments being pushed upon students, which would effectively drive them to become anti-West/anti-US. This doesn't mean that all madrasas do this, but certainly a significant number of them push their *own* values upon students, which tends to contradict that of Islamic values and beliefs.
However, understand the bigger implications behind this, as the incidents (such as the pointless village riots against the whole anti-Muslim video) are giving Islam itself a bad light much more than the country of Pakistan itself. As you should know, madrasas exist to teach everything about Islam, but they're certainly teaching more than that that's for sure ;P

Madrasas are the folks that are influencing the young generation to accrue a negative mindset about the US (or at least, those ignorant/stupid enough to fall for such bs). But with the drone attacks constantly killing off more civilian Pakistanis day-by-day than they are enemy combatants, who can blame anyone there for justifying their anger towards the US?

Pakistan has a large, dominant population of their version of rednecks too you know , they are the loudest in saying they hate the US, but the rest of the population thinks otherwise...It's just unfortunate there is no safe means to shout louder than the rednecks to get the people's point across there.

Tell you what ED, give as little, insignificant reason to stop bashing on the US, and Pakistan as a whole will have no choice but to crank their desperation down a notch.


Ohhh you want to get into the "Pakistan knew where Bin-Laden was!"
There has been too many debates about this matter and all the reports that affirm this statement and/or shuts down this statement has been inconsistent.

If you had the former CIA station of Islamabad (you know, the guy heading intelligence operations for the US in Pakistan itself) chief Robert Grenier saying there was no proof Pakistan or its officials had any idea, and even former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates (who reviewed all the reports sent to him about the operation regarding the raid on Laden's compound) saying there was no proof ISI or any head at Pakistan had any idea Bin Laden was living right under his nose, then I'm pretty sure you can't blatantly say the Pakistani government at the time completely knew, or knowingly hid Bin Laden there.

You should actually be thanking Pakistan actually ED, if they didn't help us catch the second-in-command of the Taliban back in 2010 (I forget his name, and the US fully credited the ISI agency with this too btw), we wouldn't have been able to find Bin Laden in the first place.

Hell, Pakistan didn't even know the US sent the Navy SEALs to a specifically targeted area of their own country until it was pretty much announced to the world that "Hey guys, Bin Laden died yo!"


About the Taliban...Have you forgotten what country actually played a role in creating the Taliban in the first place? It was the US back in the 80s x )
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If you carpet bomb the military buildings and governmental buildings, you're simply weakening the failing government that's currently in place.
You have a couple of consequences because of that:

1) Your weakening of the already failing government can make the Taliban step in and take over the country pretty damn easily, at any time they can choose to, since your wanting to carpet bomb signifies no more dealings with the country anymore, politically-wise.

1a) Because you decided to essentially bully the failing government in this way, you're just giving more reason for the general population to hate you, the US, even more. This makes people joining with the Taliban in a crusade against the US more significant. You end up having worse people in power than what you had before you carpet bombed them. GJ bro.

OR

2) You piss off Pakistan enough to decide they want to test their nukes against the US. They're that desperate, what with the only major foreign aid they get coming from you, the US, what else would they have to lose?
And since Pakistan provided one of the only safest supply routes through Afghanistan to reach soldiers of NATO and the US Army, you've just lost a strategic point making such a careless move against Pakistan.


2a)...Or they decide they had enough of you encroaching in their territory, and decide that China being the main investor/donor of foreign aid would prove to be a safer and friendlier option than to deal with than you, the US. (They're starting to already do this the more US does something that ends up being negative to the country as a whole).

2ab) Well guess what, China just got a great new trading route opportunity, since they happen to be good buddies with Afghanistan as well. They locked you, the US, out of Pakistan, increasing tensions b/e the US and China because now that Pakistan has no more obligations to deal with the US, we just happen to officially lose Pakistan as an ally.
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Your solution just brings a lose-lose situation. Things are not as clear-cut as it seems regarding Pakistan BECAUSE they have nukes, and BECAUSE China is there waiting to pounce in the right time the moment the US clears out of Pakistan for good.

We don't want Pakistan going rogue, sure, but we'd have bigger problems the minute China steps in to save Pakistan. Your wanting to cut off all diplomatic ties with Pakistan would mean that we would essentially be locked out of a majority chunk of both Asia and the Middle East.

Personally, I don't like Pakistan too much...If they had no nukes, things could easily be more simpler...but it's not, as they have just as much to lose as the US if anything rocks their relationship (strained as it already is). Mainly because these terrorist networks can invade the government at any time w/o the protection of the US.

[Singidava]

Wall of texts are back~! I'm so happy! :'D

...If only I had time to write one... just one... nrgh... must... not... write... argh!