International Politics Thread

[Singidava]

Since we don't have "international economy" -thread, I guess it's okay to talk about Portugal's situtation here~?
For those who didn't know, Portugal finally requested EU's help with its economic situtation day before yesterday. So, what are your thoughts about it?

Up until now the leaders of the euro countries have diligently helped the others. When debt bailouts are being discussed usually Germany is the one that has the most influence. After that comes France and then the rest of the AAA -countries (= Austria, Finland, Luxembourg and Netherlands).

[AAA is the best credit rating possible. In other words these are the countries with the best economic situtation in euro zone.]





*sigh*

I really did never imagine that I would have to bring Finnish politics to this topic like this but...
We have a parlamental election in less than ten days. And the result is going to be... more influental than usual.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-2 ... redit.html
http://www.helsinkitimes.org/htimes/hel ... ction.html

Basically if True Finns -party gets too many parlament seats here, you can say goodbye to the financial help from EU to the problem coutries, unless EU comes up with something new that DOESN'T require unanimous decision. And even if True Finns fails, SDP too has been getting more euro-sceptic lately... So it's more like current goverment vs. opposition. This is actually really suprising because usually Finland has been very pro-EU...

For example here, in Finland, the next election is drawing close... I wonder if I could rant about it (and one annoying populist party in particular)~?

^That's an extract from my first post to this topic. The "annoying populist party" I mentioned is True Finns. Yeah, you can tell I hate that party. And I don't even have strong political views except that I hate populism... It's so short sighted!

[E.D.Revolution]

Portugal has traditionally been a weak country in the EU for quite a while. So it's not surprising that Portugal would have one of the weakest economies in the EU... The question is : what took them so long to ask for a bailout?

And why the hell does the EU need unanimity in order to pass bailouts and such?

And you know what I find funny? Europe is going through what the US went through in late 2008.

[Singidava]

And why the hell does the EU need unanimity in order to pass bailouts and such?

That's because we're not one country but merely an union. That's why we theoretically don't have obligation to save others and no one can command all the countries or force them to take part to this operation. However, if one country doesn't help then the others think it's unfair and start fighting like brats in kindergarten. I think that's the reason.

And you know what I find funny? Europe is going through what the US went through in late 2008.

Hahaha... That's pretty close but not quite. The point here is that some of the countries (AAA countries) are prospering even when the others don't ("PIGS" countries). This is also why some can think that it isn't neccessary to help and not believe that the crisis spreads. This, in turn, creates internal conflicts in EU.

[Unas]

And you know what I find funny? Europe is going through what the US went through in late 2008.

As with all the economic crises that the US send to us... The crisis of 1929 hit the French economy in 1931, etc.
Except that this time, France had a leader with an intelligent economic policy to prevent its economy from falling completely like in 1931

[Singidava]

The results of the elections should be confirmed around midnight... (in 3 and a half hours) Currently it looks like EU is going to have to say goodbye for Portugal's bailouts. Fortunately, not even half of the votes have been counted yet but well... it looks pretty bad. True Finns seems to get even more votes than the polls said... -_-

[Singidava]

No, I do not care that I'm double posting. I have still that much rage left in me from yesterday.

...So, if you have watched the news and live in EU you probably know what happened in the election since it made it to the headlines in pretty much every country around here... If you do not know what I'm talking about read this:

Finland leads rise of the far right across the EU

With a population of just 5.4m, Finland doesn’t often take the lead on European Union policy. But while the shape of its new coalition government is thrashed out over the next few weeks, all eyes will be on the Land of a Thousand Lakes: the result has the potential to sink Portugual, and even the euro itself.

In the parliamentary election results over the weekend, anti-euro party the True Finns more than quadrupled its share of the vote from 4pc to 19pc. Coming in third, the party now has the chance to turn Finland’s traditionally pro-EU politics on its head.

(source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... he-EU.html )
In other words there are currently three major parties that are about even, one of which being True Finns. And they're supposed to work together to form the new goverment. What a joke!

Today... the most common phrases I heard at school was "I'm going to move to Sweden." and "Don't talk Finnish to me. I'm Swedish now." This is (obviously) because of the results. You see most of my friends voted for Green League which absolutely despises True Finns (and it also lost third of its voters in the election). To be honest, almost everyone in my school is against True Finns and their win was pretty much the only topic here. Even at the morning assembly... the chairman of the student council began his speech by saying "Today, I have rather freezing mood due the elections..." I don't know if I have ever talked so much politics during one day as today and that's really saying something!

[E.D.Revolution]

From what I'm reading in the comments, it seems like they don't like "nationalist" parties... But I have no authority on European politics.

[Singidava]

Nationalistic parties are also tend to be racistic and populistic. But why do Europeans fear this combo so much (apart from the obvious fact that populism is short sighted)? The history. Namely nazis. And I believe no one wants to repeat that history... I've even heard that people are scared of using too many German flags in Germany (which we find rather silly though). Hmm... If I remember it correctly even Humon parodied it. Here: http://satwcomic.com/evil-flag
Anyway, it's true there are similarities and it's scary. There has even been some news articles about it (I'd show them but they're in Finnish). Generally, we avoid talking about nazis (especially in politics) and that's why I was really suprised when even officials started comparing True Finns' art policies to them. My friend told me that they talked about the subject in their history lesson too...

Of course, this is only what I think. There are probably a lot more reasons other than the history.

Anyway, populism, extreme right and xenophobia are on rise everywhere in Europe and that's what I don't like.

[E.D.Revolution]

Nationalistic parties are also tend to be racistic and populistic. But why do Europeans fear this combo so much (apart from the obvious fact that populism is short sighted)? The history. Namely nazis. And I believe no one wants to repeat that history... I've even heard that people are scared of using too many German flags in Germany (which we find rather silly though). Hmm... If I remember it correctly even Humon parodied it. Here: http://satwcomic.com/evil-flag
Anyway, it's true there are similarities and it's scary. There has even been some news articles about it (I'd show them but they're in Finnish). Generally, we avoid talking about nazis (especially in politics) and that's why I was really suprised when even officials started comparing True Finns' art policies to them.

Ah Nazism. The best way to discredit a party: label them Nazis.

Anyway, populism, extreme right and xenophobia are on rise everywhere in Europe and that's what I don't like.

It's the same here, the States. The country is turning to the extreme right, and they're most likely going to take the economy down with them. I don't really care about the Tea Bag party, to be honest. Sounds good, VERY POOR preception due to people like Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin using the name to further their agenda.

[Ping']

Nationalistic parties are also tend to be racistic and populistic. But why do Europeans fear this combo so much (apart from the obvious fact that populism is short sighted)? The history. Namely nazis. And I believe no one wants to repeat that history... I've even heard that people are scared of using too many German flags in Germany (which we find rather silly though). Hmm... If I remember it correctly even Humon parodied it. Here: http://satwcomic.com/evil-flag
Anyway, it's true there are similarities and it's scary. There has even been some news articles about it (I'd show them but they're in Finnish). Generally, we avoid talking about nazis (especially in politics) and that's why I was really suprised when even officials started comparing True Finns' art policies to them. My friend told me that they talked about the subject in their history lesson too...

Of course, this is only what I think. There are probably a lot more reasons other than the history.

Anyway, populism, extreme right and xenophobia are on rise everywhere in Europe and that's what I don't like.

> Indeed, and what makes this more frightening is that it's happening in Finland, which is generally seen abroad as the closest thing you'll get on Earth to a problem-free paradise along with other Nordic countries... Its social policies and economic performance are praised all over Europe. Surveys even point to Finland as the single best country in the world in terms of overall quality of life!
While it was hit by the recession, it wasn't as badly as some other countries (Wikipedia gives me 8.1% unemployment in 2010 which is decent for an industrialized country in this context, see 9.6% for France, close to 15% for Ireland and 20% in Spain!), and its prospects for the future seem much less bleak... it's definitely more a country of the future than a country of the past. Finally, it appears to be more pro-european than its neighbours...
So the traditional conditions don't seem to be there for such a rise in a populist nationalist party... I'd like to know your take on why you think this election "victory" happened. Does this have to do with immigration, resentment over the EU or against Sweden, feelings of identity crisis?

(Looked at the True Finns' platform, by the way. Though the name of the party is appalling - I guess that makes you a Fake Finn - it doesn't seem quite as hardcore as other far right parties in Europe like the Front National or the Austrian Freedom Party. In particular, I don't see the same strong anti-immigration, and now islamophobic stances, but more of a general anti-globalization trend.)

[Singidava]

@ED: Here it's usually the best way to discredit yourself since comparing someone to nazis is probably the dirtiest trick in the book. That's why I was so suprised about people comparing them so casually.

Yeah, sorry, I should've said "west" instead of "Europe". Oh, and don't even get me started about that party... And if that woman (Palin) somehow gets elected to president I can promise you'll get some fresh RAEG from me...

@Ping': Yes, well, Nordics have usually topped at that kind of surveys, but right wing populism isn't really anything new here (except for Finland of course). It has probably the biggest influence in Denmark where they have ridiculously strict immigration laws thanks to Dansk Folkeparti. There is also Progress Party in Norway and, of course, the infamous and isolated Sverigedemokraterna in Sweden. I don't know about Iceland though. Anyway, you could say that rise of the populism was a little late in Finland compared to the other Nordics. The reason why it has gotten so much attention is only because Finland is part of Euro system and the timing was really bad. And the reason why Finland has been so pro-EU before is probably mostly because of our history. All because having Russia next to you and watching coutries (Baltics) around you falling doesn't really make you feel safe. Since the declaration of independence we have taken pretty much every possible counter measure against Russia and/or tried not to annoy it. So what could be better ally than EU?

Immigration? Hahahahaha! Immigration in Finland is absolutely minimal (I guess no one wants to live in a dark and cold place like this xD) and that's one of the reasons why people were so taken aback by the rise of the populism. Resentment over EU and Sweden? Since when there hasn't been "resentment" over Sweden at least? We have always been jealous of that country! You know Finland used to be *seriously poor* until last few decades. Sometimes people even call Finland Japan of Europe because of its huge economic rise during Cold War. Well, that brings us to one of the reasons populism is on rise. We had a really severe recession in 90s mostly because the fall of Soviet Union (Finland is very dependant on its export business). Ever since we have been very strict when it comes to economy. People can still remember the previous slump and they also remember no one helped us back then. That's probably why people still get anry at the thought of other countries wasting our money.

And about that name... If you translate it literally it means "basic finns" (Perussuomalaiset in Finnish) so the name is not really as racist as it sounds due the English (and Swedish!) translation(s).
Yeah, the party is really nothing compared to some of its southern counterparts. What makes it noteworthy though is the power it gained due Euro's crisis. Another thing that I've heard that people, especially foreigners, fear is that their thoughts help populism to spread to other countries too.

[Ping']

Interesting, thanks for all the info =)

So in other words, if I understood correctly, the current euro crisis, and the bailout of the so-called "PIGS" (here's another name I hate XD) is playing a part in this too.

And with the dependence on exports you mentioned, the strong euro and impossibility to use your own currency to make them more competitive must arrive at a bad time. Of course, what anti-euro parties fail to realize (in France too, our populist party is pushing for a return to the national franc) is that while the adoption of a common currency may have been premature in the first place, once you've opted to join it, it's very costly to exit. For instance, were France to leave the Eurozone, and devaluate the reestablished franc, our debt - issued in euros - would become more expensive in the process... Of course, the party says it would "monetize" the debt in response, but that means increasing inflation and doesn't solve the long term problem at all. Most likely, we'd be victim of speculative attacks, would have to adopt strict austerity measures, and would suffer a large recession with a further drop in employment ; a recession completely caused by the policy supposedly designed to save us all XD

[Phantom]

Which foreign banks/institutions got half a trillion dollars? Federal head Chairman Bernanke: "I don't know"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0NYBTkE1yQ


End the feds? :p

[Ping']

Can you explain the controversy? I don't have the full context...
From what I have, his answers actually make sense, for the most part (I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, I studied those matters but that doesn't mean I can't still be completely wrong) . They're just somewhat disingenuous, and the part about the coincidence seems like a blatant lie.
But some of the questions are downright silly, for instance the one about the spirit of the Constitution, and the congressman doesn't appear to know exactly what he's talking about. If I understood correctly, we're talking about central banks swapping currencies... he makes it sound like the central bank is giving away the money of poor Americans to foreigners, whereas the foreign central banks actually have to buy back the currency they sold and pay interest on the top of it in the end.

It's good that the chairman of the Fed actually has to explain himself to Congress, though, unlike the European Central Bank. Being independent doesn't mean no one should be able to question your decisions.

[E.D.Revolution]

I'm not too sure about the context about this, but this sounds like another potential political attack. SMH.

I'm looking at a pyschological stand point. Bernanke doesn't seem to have the information at hand... which is poor for the head of the Fedral Reserve. I mean, the question about who holds the half a trillion dollars is a pretty legitimate question. He should be able to answer that question without having to pause. That's pretty important to know.

They're just somewhat disingenuous, and the part about the coincidence seems like a blatant lie.

You're probably right about this.

But some of the questions are downright silly, for instance the one about the spirit of the Constitution, and the congressman doesn't appear to know exactly what he's talking about.

But the spirit of the Constitution... You'll have to read it, but I think this is a bullying tactic. I have to agree with you here.

If I understood correctly, we're talking about central banks swapping currencies... he makes it sound like the central bank is giving away the money of poor Americans to foreigners, whereas the foreign central banks actually have to buy back the currency they sold and pay interest on the top of it in the end.

I think this is feeding into the "Americans'" xenophobia. Like the "Buy American only!" type of movements. First of all, this is a global world, a global economy. If you keep having that protectionist attitude, you're going to shoot yourself in the foot many times until you can't walk. It has NOT worked in the beginning of our country *coughjeffersoncough* What makes you think it'll work now. And that's what I think Greyson is trying to do, for i don't know what, but it doesn't seem like a legitimate reason.