Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney

Discuss video games from Pong to Call of Duty, including Ace Attorney games.

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Lind
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Re: Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney

Post by Lind »

Bad Player wrote:Yes Lind, it's not just an AA game, but also a Layton game.
I know. I acknowledged this.

I'm not entirely sure what point you're making here.
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Re: Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney

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Because basically all your complaints are hallmarks of Layton games?
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Re: Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney

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Bad Player wrote:Because basically all your complaints are hallmarks of Layton games?
And this means they aren't bad things because...?
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Re: Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney

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That doesn't mean it isn't bad, but you're using a silly set of standards to judge the game
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Re: Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney

Post by Lind »

Bad Player wrote:That doesn't mean it isn't bad, but you're using a silly set of standards to judge the game
Explain how.
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Re: Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney

Post by Nearavex »

Spoiler : :
Well, I myself don't think the problem you brought up about Storyteller's and Darklaw's personalities is really that bad, especially for Darklaw. Not counting their backstory, I especially liked the atmosphere during the trial she prosecuted.

On the other hand, I must agree about Barnham. During all the time he had the screentime, he was handled perfectly... But then, he got thrown into the dungeon for the rest of the game. He really could have done something significant during last trial, even if it were, for example, escaping and coming back with some kind of evidence.

It would be especially great if it was that evidence he would come up with, that would make Layton instantly put the pieces together about the town's mystery, during the trial. For example, had he been the one to find the photo, which I feel was the decisive clue for Layton...
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Re: Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney

Post by enigma »

Lind wrote:
Bad Player wrote:That doesn't mean it isn't bad, but you're using a silly set of standards to judge the game
Explain how.
Well, you can't really call a game bad for perfectly catching/doing what it's supposed to do, can you? Honestly, I consider this my favorite AA game. It carried all the good of the visual in AA, but also carried with it a much more interesting overarching story. The fact is, your gripes are either complaining that the game isn't what you thought it was or doing EXACTLY what it was supposed to do. Aka. Be both an AA and a LAYTON game. You can't judge a dog as bad because it wasn't a cat, or an orange as bad since it wasn't an apple. And that's what you're doing here. Maybe if this was just an AA game you'd have a point. But it isn't. It's half a Professor Layton game. And I felt, while they didn't blend together seamlessly, giving the investigation style to that of the layton games and the trial segments to that of the Ace Attorney games is quite a fair compromise. And, further more, the outlandish and crazy twist at the end is a STAPLE of the Layton franchise in the same way that crazy breakdowns or putting a different prosecutor on the bench for the final trial is a staple of the AA games. You can say you didn't care for it, I guess? But you can't say it's BAD as a result. You're complaining about a stylistic choice that is a constant within what half of the crossover is. This isn't Ace Attorney Vs Ace Attorney. As for the plot holes, sure I noticed a few but if you think about them there's a very easy explanation for most of them. Or they're actually addressed in the bonus episodes.

Finally, do NOT apply Knox or Dine to this game. Neither AA, nor PL follows knox. It's not applicable to either series'. And neither of those are mandatory for a story. Applying them is completely irrelevant and just a bad way of judging a game.

I just want to repeat this once more for emphasis. Complaining that a crossover between series' took elements from one of those series which you don't agree with is a terrible way of judging something as bad, because you should've guessed that both games would be represented going in.
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Re: Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney

Post by Nearavex »

I myself do acknowledge a lot from this game as hallmarks of the Layton game's and while did not mind anything in the game that much, I wouldn't really call Lind's complaints completely wrong.

I don't really believe that whatever is intended by the author can serve as a justification of quality of the given work. Just because something was intended as a part of the concept, it doesn't necessarily have to mean that it cannot be considered a flaw.

This actually applies less to Layton games itself and more to your defense of it, though. Still, I'm not sure if I can really speak for the series itself, as I pretty much given up on it, having tried the first two games. The pacing was way too slow for me and I was pretty much bored to death...
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Re: Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney

Post by Lind »

Nearavex wrote:
Spoiler : :
Well, I myself don't think the problem you brought up about Storyteller's and Darklaw's personalities is really that bad, especially for Darklaw. Not counting their backstory, I especially liked the atmosphere during the trial she prosecuted.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think that's "bad" so much as just "not great". My point there was more that there were maybe 5 characters with enough screentime to be fully fleshed-out, and of them only two really worked for me.
enigma wrote:Well, you can't really call a game bad for perfectly catching/doing what it's supposed to do, can you?
Well, actually, I can. If someone tried to do something that wasn't a good idea, and succeeded, that doesn't make it a good idea.
enigma wrote:And, further more, the outlandish and crazy twist at the end is a STAPLE of the Layton franchise in the same way that crazy breakdowns or putting a different prosecutor on the bench for the final trial is a staple of the AA games.
Lind wrote:...and I wouldn't have minded it that much, if it had been even remotely possible for us to work it out. But no, instead, Layton figures out the whole thing in the background by extrapolating from a ridiculously tiny amount of information because he is completely perfect.
So yes, I don't mind that the twist is completely absurd - I mean, I can't say I like that, but I wouldn't have called that bad in of itself. My problem is that there is literally no way we could have figured it out ourselves.
enigma wrote:As for the plot holes, sure I noticed a few but if you think about them there's a very easy explanation for most of them. Or they're actually addressed in the bonus episodes.
I watched the bonus episodes after writing that, but they just raised further questions - they pretty much flat-out admitted that it was a plot hole that made no sense.
enigma wrote:Finally, do NOT apply Knox or Dine to this game.
Okay, listen. Knox and Van Dine are not an infallible set of rules that absolutely have to be followed. Several of these rules have not aged well. However, that does not mean you aren't taking a risk by ignoring them completely. Notice how the game actually broke a lot more Knox and Van Dine than just the ones I listed? That's because I only listed the ones that had negative consequences (in this context) for breaking.
enigma wrote:Complaining that a crossover between series' took elements from one of those series which you don't agree with is a terrible way of judging something as bad, because you should've guessed that both games would be represented going in.
"But you should have known it would be bad before you played it!" does not hold up as an argument, to me.
Nearavex wrote:I pretty much given up on it, having tried the first two games. The pacing was way too slow for me and I was pretty much bored to death...
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the Layton series either. I think it completely fails as a mystery series. It does work as a long string of amusing puzzles for its own sake, though - but this isn't applicable to PLvsPWAA.
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Re: Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney

Post by Enthalpy »

E3 confirmed the release date as August 29th for North America. The trailer is here, though the release date is not given in the trailer itself.
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Re: Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney

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Welp, enjoy European users while we here in America have to wait until the end of August. (Because I'm too cheap to import a European 3DS.)
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Re: Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney

Post by SwagmaWampyr »

So this game is the best AA game ever, even better than GK2 and we all know how much of that game's praises I sing.

And yes, that is all I came here to say.

bai now, I'll be posting my thoughts on the SDR voices when I get the game tomorrow morning and that's the last non DRRP activity you'll see from me in a while~

Oh, and if anybody wants a digital copy, say the word and I'll see what I can do to accommodate. I've already got three people I'm buying it for though so no promises. Not sure if it'll work if you're outside US regions either. In fact it definitely won't. So yeah. Americans only.

Maybe Canada? idk.
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Re: Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney

Post by Ami »

So much love for this game. Except the majority of case 3. I almost chucked the game out of my window during some of the obvious reveals.
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Re: Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney

Post by Sleuth »

Spoiler : Possible Spoilers so just in case :
Is it just me, or do the cases seem simultaneously easier to solve, yet harder to present, because the exact contradiction is a bit more... off? I do know that I've gotten most contradictions via guesstective and hunches more so than logical deductions.
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Re: Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney

Post by enigma »

Spoiler : Case 3 Spoiler :
Well, I didn't get that Greyerl was a trap at first. But I did start to suspect that they were possibly a trap when it became sort-of suspicious, and to be a witch they had to be female so... Yeah. I guess it's possible to work out that they were a trap, but I didn't really see it.

Also, why would you throw your 3DS out of the window? There was really only one major reveal, and it was definitely not as obvious as the ones in GS5. :T
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