Gameboard/General Mystery

Discuss topics that are unrelated to Ace Attorney Online, introduce yourself if you're new and read the latest Member of the Month interview.

Modérateurs : EN - Assistant Moderators, EN - Forum Moderators

Règles du forum

Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Bad Player » Lun Sep 21, 2015 3:40 pm

Calvinball a écrit :
Spoiler : @Bad Player :
What theories haven't actually been disproved?

Spoiler : :
the rubber butt

erika ridiculous shannon for all her putt putting, and she couldn't take it anymore
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Bad Player
 
Message(s) : 7211
Inscription : Mer Mai 20, 2009 10:53 pm
Localisation : Under a bridge
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: American

Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Calvinball » Lun Sep 21, 2015 4:07 pm

Spoiler : @Bad Player :
Image

In retrospect I suppose I asked for it, but... no.
The score is still Q to 12. Shirley Homes avatar by my Invisible Friend. They're an awesome artist!
ImageImage

Image

Image
A huge thanks to my Invisible Friend for this AMAZING Shirley Homes art!

Shirley Homes
Image

Connie Harper
Image
A big thanks to gotMLK7 for this Shirley Homes and Connie Harper art. He is an awesome artist!
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Calvinball
 
Message(s) : 530
Inscription : Mer Fév 04, 2015 12:28 am
Localisation : Out of town; will be back!
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Ferdielance » Lun Sep 28, 2015 9:19 pm

Spoiler : Hmm :
The opening reminds us of Manfred's malign presence in the house, spiritually, and that Edgeworth does not believe in ghosts. It also references DL-6, in which spirit channeling canonically played a major role. This is sufficient clueing to allow the possibility of spirit channeling or outright possession as part of the crime. Supernatural influences were never eliminated, and, indeed, if Edgeworth is reliable AT ALL TIMES, so are his dreams, confirming the supernatural (Beatrice). Manfred possessed Shannon, and killed Franziska to off his wife and avenge himself on her. Alternatively, he gave ghostly messages to Shannon that created a motive.

Alternatively, same theory, but substitute Beatrice for Manfred.


Hey, you said to think way out there... Here's another.

Spoiler : Heh. :
Erika had a child with a birth defect. This was clued as a possible consequence of her condition - harm to the child, even if the disease itself isn't passed down. A child with a birth defect could not be accepted as a Von Karma, but could not be given up for adoption either, as that would reveal a weakness in the bloodline. Erika hid the truth of this child from Manfred, knowing that Manfred would NOT want to deal with such imperfection. Either Shannon was that child, or she was sympathetic to that child's case. Either way, she resented Erika's actions and sought to kill her. Why now? A few options. Either the marrow transplant would somehow reveal the truth of the situation (or already did, when Erika asked her for a transplant and it didn't work because Shannon is genetically 50% Manfred), or she wanted Erika to die by the same disease she tried to conceal.

What was the nature of this defect? Well... it seems quite inefficient to force servants to communicate in written messages. Even if servants are to be seen and not heard, that's getting ridiculous. But what if that rule was meant to hide that Shannon CAN'T speak?

The worst part is that Erika probably loves Shannon, in her own cold way - she's the only person Erika bothers to compliment in the whole story. But she loves Shannon less than she loves perfection.
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Ferdielance
 
Message(s) : 762
Inscription : Dim Mars 09, 2008 12:46 am
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Calvinball » Mar Sep 29, 2015 12:46 am

Spoiler : @Ferdielance :
Image

Heheheheheh... so many blues all at once? Well, I suppose demanding that they be submitted one at a time only makes things longer... I'll even play nice and be a little straightforward with you!

First things first: Nothing about this crime was supernatural! I'd say there's no such thing as ghosts, but then we'd have to get into the difference between ghosts, spirits, and me, so...

Time for some good news! Erika von Karma did give birth to a child with birth defects... and that child was Shannon. Yes, Shannon is a von Karma by blood, but was forced to live as a servant because birth defects made her "imperfect!"

I'm... not entirely sure I understand your explanation of "why now," though? Could you explain a little more? I think I was just confused by the way it's in a list.
The score is still Q to 12. Shirley Homes avatar by my Invisible Friend. They're an awesome artist!
ImageImage

Image

Image
A huge thanks to my Invisible Friend for this AMAZING Shirley Homes art!

Shirley Homes
Image

Connie Harper
Image
A big thanks to gotMLK7 for this Shirley Homes and Connie Harper art. He is an awesome artist!
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Calvinball
 
Message(s) : 530
Inscription : Mer Fév 04, 2015 12:28 am
Localisation : Out of town; will be back!
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Ferdielance » Mar Sep 29, 2015 2:20 am

Spoiler : Clearer theory :
Until recently, Shannon was kept in the dark about the truth. But when Bernkastel and Kyrie (and "other relatives") turned out not to be compatible donors, Erika had one option left before the desperate move of reaching out to Franziska: telling Shannon what happened and asking her for marrow.

Learning her mother had fooled her into thinking herself an orphan was bad enough, but when she, too, turned out not to be a match and Erika planned to reach out to the outcast Franziska, that was the last straw. Franziska had everything Shannon had ever wanted, and she threw it away! Now Erika was going to give her a chance to win her way back onto her good side, while the maid who'd been at her side all this time was still cut out? Unacceptable!

And that was that.
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Ferdielance
 
Message(s) : 762
Inscription : Dim Mars 09, 2008 12:46 am
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Calvinball » Mar Sep 29, 2015 5:41 am

Spoiler : @Ferdielance :
Image

And we have our motive! In other words, yes, that is Shannon's motive. How could Erika have done this to her? How could she still leave her as a servant? How could she think she had the right to try and live longer!? It was simply too much!

Hee hee... We seem to be closing in on the perfect solution. Anyone feel ready to attempt a full answer?
The score is still Q to 12. Shirley Homes avatar by my Invisible Friend. They're an awesome artist!
ImageImage

Image

Image
A huge thanks to my Invisible Friend for this AMAZING Shirley Homes art!

Shirley Homes
Image

Connie Harper
Image
A big thanks to gotMLK7 for this Shirley Homes and Connie Harper art. He is an awesome artist!
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Calvinball
 
Message(s) : 530
Inscription : Mer Fév 04, 2015 12:28 am
Localisation : Out of town; will be back!
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Bad Player » Mar Sep 29, 2015 6:27 am

Calvinball a écrit :
Spoiler : :
Hee hee... We seem to be closing in on the perfect solution. Anyone feel ready to attempt a full answer?

Spoiler : *cracks knuckles* :
I still say it was the rubber butt.
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Bad Player
 
Message(s) : 7211
Inscription : Mer Mai 20, 2009 10:53 pm
Localisation : Under a bridge
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: American

Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Calvinball » Mar Sep 29, 2015 2:15 pm

Spoiler : @Bad Player :
I'm afraid we already have a red that addresses that: "In retrospect I suppose I asked for it, but... no."
The score is still Q to 12. Shirley Homes avatar by my Invisible Friend. They're an awesome artist!
ImageImage

Image

Image
A huge thanks to my Invisible Friend for this AMAZING Shirley Homes art!

Shirley Homes
Image

Connie Harper
Image
A big thanks to gotMLK7 for this Shirley Homes and Connie Harper art. He is an awesome artist!
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Calvinball
 
Message(s) : 530
Inscription : Mer Fév 04, 2015 12:28 am
Localisation : Out of town; will be back!
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Ferdielance » Mar Sep 29, 2015 6:48 pm

Spoiler : Who, How, Why :
Who: Shannon.

How: Shannon knew in advance she would be killing Franziska and acquired a silenced gun to that end. However, the method didn't make itself apparent until Franziska announced she would be going through the documents in a room guarded by Kyrie. This is why it bears so many signs of improvisation (see below). As Bernkastel lived in the house, Shannon had a good understanding of Kyrie's psychology. Furthermore, as Erika had a condition that caused her pain, it is likely she had sedatives on hand to help her sleep. Shannon drugged Kyrie when delivering her tea with Kanon. Afterwards, when she split up from Kanon to "go to the kitchen," she walked past the sleeping girl and killed Franziska.

Why: As stated above, Shannon was Erika's daughter, but only recently learned, in light of the need for a bone marrow transplant, that they were related. When it became clear that Franziska, not her, was likely to be taken back in as a daughter, while Shannon would remain a maid, she snapped.

Additional notes: It is possible, though by no means certain, that Shannon's congenital condition is being unable to speak. We know that it is nothing visible to casual inspection, at least.

It is plausible that Shannon never really planned to get away with this crime in the long-term. She drugged Kyrie and used a silenced gun to reduce the chance that anyone besides her target would die. However, sooner or later, Kyrie would be bound to figure it out, and would be likely to tell someone insofar as she cared for Franziska and her fear of her mother, while strong, was not invincible. And that's assuming nobody tested Kyrie for drugs! Or found her powder-marked gloves, or worked out how she got the gun.
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Ferdielance
 
Message(s) : 762
Inscription : Dim Mars 09, 2008 12:46 am
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Calvinball » Mer Sep 30, 2015 9:03 pm

Spoiler : @Ferdielance :
Image

Heeheehee... I'm about to get very mean with you. You've done very well thus far, and your theory is nearly perfect. Unfortunately, your blue truth is not perfectly thorough!

It has to do with how the crime was committed. If you were Shannon and you were coming up with this plan quickly (but effectively), what's the one thing you might be worried about? What's the one thing that could've happened that would've revealed the trick very quickly - and why wasn't it a problem in reality?
The score is still Q to 12. Shirley Homes avatar by my Invisible Friend. They're an awesome artist!
ImageImage

Image

Image
A huge thanks to my Invisible Friend for this AMAZING Shirley Homes art!

Shirley Homes
Image

Connie Harper
Image
A big thanks to gotMLK7 for this Shirley Homes and Connie Harper art. He is an awesome artist!
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Calvinball
 
Message(s) : 530
Inscription : Mer Fév 04, 2015 12:28 am
Localisation : Out of town; will be back!
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Ferdielance » Jeu Oct 01, 2015 6:43 am

That's a little broad and a little vague. Thoughts.

Spoiler : Possible hitches :
Kyrie was both sleep-deprived AND drugged. If she had not woken up within three hours, she'd have been found asleep and the entire locked room would collapse. This is frankly much more probable than her just happening to wake up in time!

Shannon might still have been hard to pin down as a culprit, though, unless people realize Kyrie had been drugged. Without the locked room, Rudolf could also be the culprit, as could Edgeworth. So it wasn't that big a gamble. To reveal Shannon's motive would require Erika to admit her deception, so Shannon might actually have been even better off WITHOUT the locked room setup.

Another possibility is that she actually woke Kyrie herself. She could have done this by making a noise, or even shaking her awake and promising not to tell that she'd been sleeping.

Another possibility for how Kyrie awoke is that it was the same kind of thing that awoke Edgeworth that woke her. Edgeworth awoke "with a start" at exactly 7:01 PM, which would be a convenient time for Kyrie to awake, too. There may have been some kind of loud clock or other in both rooms. We know one study had a clock, and perhaps the other had a striking clock.
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Ferdielance
 
Message(s) : 762
Inscription : Dim Mars 09, 2008 12:46 am
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Calvinball » Jeu Oct 01, 2015 7:11 am

Spoiler : @Ferdielance :
Image

Ferdielance a écrit :That's a little broad and a little vague.

Granted. Let's narrow things down a little, as you're slightly over-complicating matters.

Shannon had a good enough understanding of the drug she used on Kyrie that it wouldn't have kept her sleeping for too long, just to clear that up.

Of course, there's still something that seems convenient about this, isn't there? How long is "too long," and how is it that it's no shorter than that? In other words, how could Shannon have ensured that no one went into the library "early?" Obviously, Bernkastel told everyone to stay out for three hours... but would that have deterred everyone? And if someone would've been undeterred... how was that person kept from going in?
The score is still Q to 12. Shirley Homes avatar by my Invisible Friend. They're an awesome artist!
ImageImage

Image

Image
A huge thanks to my Invisible Friend for this AMAZING Shirley Homes art!

Shirley Homes
Image

Connie Harper
Image
A big thanks to gotMLK7 for this Shirley Homes and Connie Harper art. He is an awesome artist!
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Calvinball
 
Message(s) : 530
Inscription : Mer Fév 04, 2015 12:28 am
Localisation : Out of town; will be back!
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Ferdielance » Jeu Oct 01, 2015 7:55 am

Spoiler : Hmm :
Well, weirdly predictable sleep patterns aside...

The "three hours" habit was known to Shannon - as Bern's conversation with Franziska showed, this was not the first time that Kyrie had to study that period. Bernkastel would not have been deterred, but it wouldn't even be necessary to deter her, I think - why would she check in? The biggest threat is Erika or Edgeworth going to see Franziska privately. And both of them were also... conveniently drowsy. Now, we have a red that said Erika couldn't be drugged without her knowledge... but that's not the same thing as not being drugged.

So a few possibilities:

* Erika deliberately took tranquilizers to deal with her pain. Shannon was aware of this, and, indeed, that's where she got the drugs for Kyrie.

* Erika was given decaffeinated tea when she normally has caffeinated tea.

* Erika habitually had a nap at that time of day.

As for Edgeworth:

* We had no red that Edgeworth wasn't drugged, so that's possible. But... even if he wasn't drugged, he wandered more than 10 minutes from everyone else! Shannon could be PRETTY sure, if she saw him sleeping when she was delivering the tea, that he wasn't going to be a problem.


EDIT:

Spoiler : And Bern :
As for Bern, if we really must account for her: she had business with Rudolf. This business may well have been habitual, and Shannon could have been aware of that. The same goes for the business with Kanon.

I mean, she seemed quite cheery from the beginning, even before she knew someone was going to die, and then she ran off with Kanon, leaving her husband behind? We might as well posit she was having an affair with Kanon, and Shannon knew she'd be occupied!
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Ferdielance
 
Message(s) : 762
Inscription : Dim Mars 09, 2008 12:46 am
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Mathias_Trueman » Jeu Oct 01, 2015 2:47 pm

Can I get a definition for Accomplice and Intruder please? (Preferably in Red; Culprit is explicitly defined in red but the other two are not.)
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Mathias_Trueman
 
Message(s) : 37
Inscription : Jeu Avr 26, 2012 12:01 am
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Calvinball » Lun Oct 05, 2015 2:04 am

Spoiler : @Mathias_Trueman :
Image

An accomplice is an individual who knowingly and willingly assists another individual in committing murder. In the context of this mystery, we speak only of the murder of Franziska von Karma. Also in the context of this mystery, it is possible to be both the Culprit and an accomplice simultaneously. As there are no accomplices, any blue truth wherein the Culprit is also an accomplice is untrue.

An Intruder is a human individual who was somehow in the manor on May 14 *before the police arrived* but was not Miles, Franziska, Bernkastel, Kyrie, Erika, Rudolf, Kanon, or Shannon. There are no intruders, meaning the individuals I named (barring Miles Edgeworth, as he is not the Culprit as stated previously in red) are our only suspects.


Unfortunately, this definition may have come a little too late...

[*Thanks to Mathias_Trueman for pointing out a minor error that has been amended now.]

Spoiler : @Ferdielance :
Image

Hee hee hee hee hee hee...

hee hee hee hee hee hee heee....

Image

hee hee HEE HEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa.......


..................





............................


Image

Heh. While you have a habit of overdoing it just a little... congratulations.

Image

Yes, you have solved the mystery and offered what I can consider a perfectly thorough solution!

Of course, you offered so many theories, we don't actually yet know which one was right! Never fear, all will be explained shortly. Let's take it one step at a time, shall we?


Image
Dernière édition par Calvinball le Lun Oct 05, 2015 2:36 am, édité 1 fois.
The score is still Q to 12. Shirley Homes avatar by my Invisible Friend. They're an awesome artist!
ImageImage

Image

Image
A huge thanks to my Invisible Friend for this AMAZING Shirley Homes art!

Shirley Homes
Image

Connie Harper
Image
A big thanks to gotMLK7 for this Shirley Homes and Connie Harper art. He is an awesome artist!
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Calvinball
 
Message(s) : 530
Inscription : Mer Fév 04, 2015 12:28 am
Localisation : Out of town; will be back!
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English

PrécédentSuivant

Retour vers General chatting

Qui est en ligne ?

Utilisateur(s) parcourant ce forum : Aucun utilisateur inscrit et 2 invité(s)