[T][CE] Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy ●

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Kit
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy ●

Post by Kit »

I have been looking forward to this for a while, since the Broken Commandments competition. Great job finishing this, Blackrune, great to see it's here! (-> didn't even open it yet)
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy ●

Post by Dylan Dog »

DWaM once said in his blog that if you describe and review something after you've fully experienced it, it kind of ruins the magic you get from actually going through it. Which is like the entire point of a piece of media. Taking that into account, I've actually started typing most of this WHILE going through this case. Consider this a replacement for my SoC, since I'm no longer on the Discord and confined to write on the forums.

Recently I have been reading three mystery books. Bear with me.

One of them was Derek Smith's novel Whistle Up the Devil. It was fine. Pretty classic stuff. The trick was neat. The narration and actual story pretty basic and dry. I liked it, I think, but it didn't leave a true long-lasting impression.

The second one is The Ginza Ghost, a collection of short stories I actually haven't entirely finished yet. It was written by Keikichi Osaka and it holds up surprisingly well both in terms of quality and mood, which is rather amazing considering the author lived up to 1945. The theming is pretty simple but always efficient and it's a similar situation for the tricks, simple and efficient, when they are actual mysteries. On the other hand, as you might realize, it's pretty old-school. But not in a stereotypical way. Older than old-school, you might say.

The third one is Disco Wednesdayyy. It's an experimental meta anti-mystery novel written by Maijo Otaro. It's pretty goofy because the characters quickly end up using locked rooms and mystery-like tricks as if they're special moves in a shonen manga (it makes sense in context), but I was disappointed by the fact it ended up turning the endgame fairly anticlimactic because it didn't follow the typical reveal schemes of a mystery novel (this isn't a spoiler). Together with the protagonist and many characters being quite unlikable and highly questionable (something I personally tolerated and believe was intentional, but still soured afterwards), extreme and uncomfortably graphic narration and subject matter, and an absurdly long page count (it was released in 3 volumes), that made it feel like it wasn't very worth going through. The vibes were there and I liked a specific character a ton, but the whole thing only felt special WHILE reading.
Which I guess is what DWaM was talking about there.

So the reason I'm bringing all three up is because Lighthouse of Lunacy was, to me, a better experience than all of them, and it's not my Blackrune superfan self speaking because by now it has probably withered away with time, I think - I could barely sense it while playing the case, which felt as though it was entirely fresh beyond the few returning tropes to remind you who made this. It would be a terrifying thing to say it felt better than all three novels combined, but if I had to trade having read those three in order to have played through Lighthouse I would do it.
Which is kind of the same thing. Granted, I am thankful I could go through all four experiences.

I don't know if Blackrune ever read that novel (though insanely niche, Blackrune of all people might have), but there is a particular twist/reveal in Act 3 that reminded me a lot of a certain situation in Disco Wednesdayyy. The difference is that Lighthouse executes it, for my tastes, better in nearly every way, from the setup to its nature and the reveal itself as well as how it develops and its solution. (Unrelatedly, the usage of the triangle and 'maru' symbols reminded me of it as well, though they are by no means limited to them in mystery overall).
There's something in the way Lighthouse handles the idea of meta-mystery that I haven't seen before. It's very tightly interconnected with the story itself and the idea of Ace Attorney gameplay, yet nothing feels entirely over-the-top for the setting; and while self-aware the whole metaness is never treated as a big deal (neither by the characters or story, nor presumably by the player), making it feel incredibly light. The characters are really memorable, fit their function to a T and play with expectations very well, as well as always contributing to that subverted mystery vibe and the theming about the value of truth and how humans are generally sympathetic but simultaneously definite assholes (the latter of which I especially enjoyed in its strong execution), although a couple of them felt like they did not fit their spriteset; granted it's understandable with the limited resources our community has, and I'll take the chance to remark on how this case has some flat-out gorgeous custom graphics. I also feel like mentioning that the humor was also on point, because it really helps go through a mystery, let alone a Blackrune case which may feel conceptually heavy.
I have to admit I used the walkthrough quite a few times, especially as my brain progressively fried, but usually I had already formed the answer and didn't know how to present it with a few exceptions where the game really got me good. There was also an amusing incident where I thought I'd already tried the correct option but actually hadn't. What's really great about this case is that I never felt truly lost in the mystery, the big picture was always in full display and I felt lucid without any fog in my mind throughout, which is more than I can say for any other Ace Attorney case I've played to begin with, or hell, any mystery for that matter. Which is good, since some contradictions required you to remember some details or connect the dots. It really game-fies the mystery in such an elegant way it's almost impossible to lose one's focus; and this is when the whole thing feels like a spiral of madness where your only option is always to point random things out hoping for a turnabout to save you, an exercise that feels more futile yet more exciting as it goes on -- the hallmark of meta-mystery.
Also the music choices (which I'll definitely have to look up from the playlist after I'm done) were uncannily on-point for almost every scene, especially during trial sections, which are rife with your classic Ace Attorney hype moments. All in all, very great presentation, with some insanely good special effects at some points, but I found quite a few typos and oversights throughout.
I wish I'd finished what we had of Burial of the Turnabout, a case that's probably hopelessly broken now and that I began playing (only not to finish), so I would have had better context about some things in this case. Like for example
Spoiler : :
I remembered Than Leid only as the funny man with the comically long hat. While I knew Luna from Courage, I'm pretty sure the connection to JP and her death were things one could only see in Burial, given she also appeared there.
That said, maybe at this point it would have been better if I had not played Burial at all.

Now, I'm not gonna be like "OMG PLAY THIS", "YOU NEED TO PLAY THIS", "PLAY THIS RIGHT NOW" etc... it's gotten old. More than that, I feel it's being said so often and yet people tend to have some strong reservations about the very case they're recommending, almost like we aren't an established group and as if it's the only way to keep AAO alive. It feels seriously wrong, because it kind of reduces AAO case-playing to some sort of community praxis instead of something we do on our terms and engage with fairly. I'm not judging anyone, but I don't want to engage in that (anymore). So I am going to not be silly and simply talk from my own experience and hope somebody relates.
I think if you're looking to read one of the novels I talked about earlier, or a VN or something you think would be similar in quality, play Lighthouse first instead. Because it's pretty brilliant and a way better usage of your time. Not simply because it's a new big AAO case. That would be reductive, and maybe even set you up on the wrong foot to enjoy it! So play it when you're specifically in the vibe for something that just SCREAMS "Broken Mystery Commandments". Specifically. Because if anything, this case achieves that to perfection -- it really plays around what it means to be a mystery story, yet never to its own detriment. Which is more than I can say for many such experiments. I hope we get to see more cases like this one.

P.S.:
Spoiler : :
I'm pretty sure I remember the HUNT device from somewhere else. Am I mistaken? Also, the "dentist" thing was one of the most hilariously out-there answers I've seen one is required to give in an AAO mystery, and I've seen plenty. Driehl having been there, in the newspaper graphic, all along was outrageous in the best of ways, and his meme see-if-I-give-a-damn personality was extremely amusing for a Mr. X culprit. He's so smug. And TIL what Ombrophobia is, you really learn something new everyday.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy ●

Post by Blackrune »

Thanks to everyone who left their thoughts.
Just getting this done was pretty satisfying. Seeing some people have a solid time with it? Even better.

@Grounder:
Spoiler : :
There's arguably only one variation here that's really bad at face-value, but the player would have to be pretty dedicated to irritating Lilian to get that.
@Dylan Dog:
Out of those, I've only read Ginza Ghost. You've now gotten me curious about Disco, though.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy ●

Post by Dylan Dog »

Blackrune wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:58 pm Thanks to everyone who left their thoughts.
Just getting this done was pretty satisfying. Seeing some people have a solid time with it? Even better.

@Grounder:
Spoiler : :
There's arguably only one variation here that's really bad at face-value, but the player would have to be pretty dedicated to irritating Lilian to get that.
@Dylan Dog:
Out of those, I've only read Ginza Ghost. You've now gotten me curious about Disco, though.
Fair warning, I cannot recommend Disco wholeheartedly. I was curious enough to read it and capable to put up with it, but that may not be true of everyone.
More on-topic with the case...
Spoiler : :
What's up with the multiple endings now?! Didn't even know there were any involved!
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy ●

Post by Initiate »

I'm only partway through, but I think you may have missed something:
Spoiler : :
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If you present the updated CRT TV to Lilian in the Side Room in Act II, she'll say "Better add these convos later, Rune!" which I think means you forgot to add those convos later, Rune. :maggey:
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy ●

Post by Blackrune »

Dylan Dog wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2024 6:43 pm Fair warning, I cannot recommend Disco wholeheartedly. I was curious enough to read it and capable to put up with it, but that may not be true of everyone.
More on-topic with the case...
Spoiler : :
What's up with the multiple endings now?! Didn't even know there were any involved!
After having read a couple pages, I think I see what you mean.
On-topic:
Spoiler : :
It's possible to get some different scenes at the end depending on actions taken mostly during the investigations. Nothing big that would warrant a replay, though. Part of me wishes I had gone further with choices leading to a customized experience, but the case got big enough as is.

Initiate wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:16 am I'm only partway through, but I think you may have missed something:
Spoiler : :
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If you present the updated CRT TV to Lilian in the Side Room in Act II, she'll say "Better add these convos later, Rune!" which I think means you forgot to add those convos later, Rune. :maggey:
Thanks for reporting. I've been made aware of a few that slipped through. WIll try to fix soon.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy ●

Post by CodingAnt »

Hi. I played this case and it was really good. I will now proceed to say an unforeseen amount of words about it, and none of you can stop me.
Spoiler : Unstructured thoughts (minor spoilers) :
This has the highest production quality I've seen in an AAO case, to the point where it's kind of astounding. With all the custom CGs and assets and everything, I'm almost amazed this isn't its own game. I'm kinda tempted to call it its own game anyway, despite the obvious limitations brought by this being in the AAO engine.

With all the little secrets and optional dialogue, especially with later scenes calling back to previous choices, I was seriously charmed by every little detail Blackrune put work into. None of it technically needed to be there, but it definitely needed to be there, TitLoL wouldn't be the same without it. Another thing I was seriously charmed by is the characters. Lilian and Victoria were by far my favourites, and both of their dynamics with the protagonist, Aurelia, are just a joy to watch. Hellinger is also a treat. Objectively. But even the more minor witnesses are extremely memorable thanks to Blackrune's impeccable character writing.

Where TitLoL really shines, though, and that I surprisingly don't see in a lot of AAO cases, is the mystery. TitLoL has the most batsh*t insane mystery plot I've ever seen, and in my opinion that ends up being a good thing. It really shows those commandments who's boss. And though on the surface the mystery does seem quite complicated, it actually ends up being a joy to figure out, and everything really falls into place by the end. Especially since the situation seems so dire in the beginning, every little piece you're able to put in your favour feels amazing.

This comes through in the contradictions, as well. Structurally, they, too, can seem quite daunting, with a couple double presents and a couple "input your answer" frames, but because the case does such a good job at keeping everything clear, they end up mostly being a cinch. They're right in that sweet spot of difficulty where it's extremely satisfying to pull off, but not frustrating to figure out. I won't deny that I did have to check the walkthrough a few times, but... Well, I actually have to give Blackrune props for that, too. Including hints before the answer was an inspired idea on his part, and by checking those rather than the actual answers, it felt like I was just being helped along the right track rather than checking an answer sheet, and retained a lot of the satisfaction of finding contradictions.

Probably the peak of the entire case is the start of Part O, where you have to deduce the routes of four different witnesses and the culprit, who you don't actually know the identity of at this point. It sounds daunting, and it is a lot to keep track of, but it does give you relevant feedback on what you get wrong if you get it wrong. You're not likely to get this entirely right without assistance, but I was personally actually able to make a surprising amount of headway before checking the hints. I spent a good hour or two just sitting and thinking about this puzzle, and came up with a few interesting theories that sadly didn't end up being true, as well as a few correct discoveries that I was really quite proud of.

I also wanna give a shoutout to the climax of Part 3 and the moment where you finally end up naming the culprit. Both of these moments let Blackrune really flex both his writing and presentation muscles and I am all for it.

I recommend this case to fans of highly complex mysteries, as well as lesbians. (As if that venn diagram isn't a circle...)
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy ●

Post by Spoonmaster12 »

I finally finished this. I just want to say, this is probably the best case I've played on this site and I truly think this game is better in the mystery department than any of the canon cases. Can't comment on PLvsLayton because I haven't played that. If you haven't played this case yet, then you're missing out on one of the biggest cases on AAO. Blackrune, please never stop making cases.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy ●

Post by ¿Acid Rain? »

Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy is not a perfect work, but it is a damn impressive one. From its snazzy custom graphics to its roller coaster of a plot, there's a lot to enjoy about this fancase. But, in particular, if you're looking for challenging, creative, AA-style mystery solving, Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy is pretty much best in class.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy ●

Post by AshuraMage »

I have no clue what I just played but I loved every second of it
In 2021 I was bored and made an AMV that now has 100K+ views
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy ●

Post by Initiate »

Have actually finished it now. I think if any case can be called a perfection of the format, it's probably this one. I can see the DNA of many other cases running through it. Exceptional job, Rune.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy ●

Post by AAPhoenixWright »

Got the following when presenting Tender Mender to Mono Poly:
if you see this pls report because
we need convos on EVERYTHING
apparently
When presenting Celise Hellinger to Mono Poly, you get Mono Poly's profile picture in the upper-right corner instead of Celise Hellinger's.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy ●

Post by Blackrune »

AAPhoenixWright wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:26 pm Got the following when presenting Tender Mender to Mono Poly:
if you see this pls report because
we need convos on EVERYTHING
apparently
When presenting Celise Hellinger to Mono Poly, you get Mono Poly's profile picture in the upper-right corner instead of Celise Hellinger's.
Thanks. Fixed now.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy ●

Post by Chuchujelly »

Spoiler : Mid Game Spoilers :
During the section where you deduce the movements on the lower floor, I got the result of breaking the game a couple of times, so here were the combinations I had that caused it:

s: shelf L.
s: Bene.
s: BA-?
M -> R. Hall.
L -> Auto.
X -> AJ-?
L -> Justice
M -> Shelf R.
C -> Justice
H -> Justice
M -> Shelf R.
M -> BA-?

There's a second shelf
It was never investigated/ It was removed later

s: Shelf L.
s: Bene.
s: BA-?
M -> R. Hall.
L -> Auto.
X -> AJ-?
L -> Justice
M -> Shelf R.
C -> Justice
H -> Justice
M -> R. Hall.
M -> BA-?

There's a second shelf
It was never investigated/ It was removed later

I think I had the theory that the floor was moving underneath Mariko, so when she hit her head she got moved to where the other shelf would've been. I know there's many issues with that theory but somehow it got me the game broken text, so something happened.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout in the Lighthouse of Lunacy ●

Post by MerrySpark »

I loved every minute of this - I genuinely found this case to be a thrilling experience from beginning to end. In fact, I loved it so much that I made this account simply so I could gush for a bit.

I haven't actually played many fanmade cases - I've only started rather recently - and this is the first of yours I've ever played. Due to this, I might have missed any references you included - but I can confidently say that this is one of the best cases I've ever played. I would even say if it were a case in the official games it'd probably be one of my favorites. Not only did I enjoy the mystery itself, but I genuinely felt myself become attached to the cast. Lilian and Aurelia especially were wonderfully written (and certainly appeal to a lesbian like myself :P). I was also quite a fan of Victoria, who despite being "objectively unlikeable" was a great foil to the protagonist (and to the absurdity of the case as a whole).

Overall a 10/10 case, and a 10/10 story as a whole. I am incredibly excited for whatever you might end up making in the future.
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